Tyler Dibling

[TheRam]

Yep all of those things may be true, but also what is true is that he's playing at the absolute pinnacle of elite football, and the reality is that if you don't step up you won't be a premier league footballer. That's the harsh reality of elite sport.

There's a million young players who'd love the opportunity he's got, so unfortunately for him he'll have to do what it takes or he won't be a top level player.

And yes others have struggled under Moyes, and those that adapted and met the expectations and standards went on to have brilliant careers with us, and those that didn't fell by the wayside.

That's the brutal reality of life at the top end of sport, shape up or ship out. I'm not saying it's right, and I have sympathy for players churned up and spat out by the system, but it is what it is, and you either make it happen for yourself or you wait around and hope it does. Only one approach leads to success.

Maybe he’s is doing all the right things but is in the wrong environment?

As a club, we’ve hardly showed ourselves as the place to be for a young player needing to develop.

He’s 20, living the other end of the country, still needing a lot of work to improve his game.

I’d like to think nobody at the club is saying shape up or ship out to him.

It’s a mentality stuck in the 80s.

Strange to try and pin it all on the player and make out he’s not doing anything himself to improve the situation.

[Kerryblueboy]

Needs to impress against wolves if he gets picked

[AjaxAndy]

Maybe he’s is doing all the right things but is in the wrong environment?

As a club, we’ve hardly showed ourselves as the place to be for a young player needing to develop.

He’s 20, living the other end of the country, still needing a lot of work to improve his game.

I’d like to think nobody at the club is saying shape up or ship out to him.

It’s a mentality stuck in the 80s.

Strange to try and pin it all on the player and make out he’s not doing anything himself to improve the situation.

Armstrong gets game time, he's started every game this season in fact. If you're showing what the manager wants you'll get games, so I don't buy the whole being a poor place for young players to develop. George also currently starting every game. Historically yes, but right now no.

I also disagree it's a mentality stuck in the 80s... You look at the % of players from academies that make it as premier league footballers, it's miniscule. You can get quite far though on talent alone, especially if you're naturally very highly talented. The difference then between those that go on to have long successful careers is whether you have the drive to succeed or not. Given Dibling is clearly very talented, then there's a reason he's languishing on the bench that's not talent related. The manager has specifically mentioned this previously too, so it's not like I'm just making things up.

Players have to take responsibility for their careers... If Dibling wants to be a premier league footballer he needs to match his talent with the unshakable desire to succeed no matter what. There's only a very small number of people every year who play at this level, no one has the right to expect it, regardless of transfer fee. Go earn the right.

[The Doc]

Could see both him and Grealish start tomorrow.

[AndSeel]

Could see both him and Grealish start tomorrow.

I really hope.so. We are aso short on depth we need a squad. Having confidence in Dibling is very important.

[StirlingBlue]

Armstrong gets game time, he's started every game this season in fact. If you're showing what the manager wants you'll get games, so I don't buy the whole being a poor place for young players to develop. George also currently starting every game. Historically yes, but right now no.

I also disagree it's a mentality stuck in the 80s... You look at the % of players from academies that make it as premier league footballers, it's miniscule. You can get quite far though on talent alone, especially if you're naturally very highly talented. The difference then between those that go on to have long successful careers is whether you have the drive to succeed or not. Given Dibling is clearly very talented, then there's a reason he's languishing on the bench that's not talent related. The manager has specifically mentioned this previously too, so it's not like I'm just making things up.

Players have to take responsibility for their careers... If Dibling wants to be a premier league footballer he needs to match his talent with the unshakable desire to succeed no matter what. There's only a very small number of people every year who play at this level, no one has the right to expect it, regardless of transfer fee. Go earn the right.

There’s plenty of examples of players who have needed a tactical adjustment or a motivational adjustment for them to turn into great players though - given how small our squad is and how much we spent on Dibling it’s on Moyes to find a way to use him.

He’s played over two thousand premier league minutes so he’s clearly capable of something at this level - I refuse to believe that Hackney is going to be better at RW than him and that sub was an insult to both of them

[AjaxAndy]

There’s plenty of examples of players who have needed a tactical adjustment or a motivational adjustment for them to turn into great players though - given how small our squad is and how much we spent on Dibling it’s on Moyes to find a way to use him.

He’s played over two thousand premier league minutes so he’s clearly capable of something at this level - I refuse to believe that Hackney is going to be better at RW than him and that sub was an insult to both of them

You'd hope he'd feature tomorrow and stake a claim for more game time... If he gets the opportunity it'll be up to him to show he's ready and capable. I hope he does.

At the end of the day we spent £40m on a £20m player in the hope we could sell for £100m down the line. At present it's not looking like a good investment.

[brap2]

Armstrong gets game time, he's started every game this season in fact. If you're showing what the manager wants you'll get games, so I don't buy the whole being a poor place for young players to develop. George also currently starting every game. Historically yes, but right now no.

I also disagree it's a mentality stuck in the 80s... You look at the % of players from academies that make it as premier league footballers, it's miniscule. You can get quite far though on talent alone, especially if you're naturally very highly talented. The difference then between those that go on to have long successful careers is whether you have the drive to succeed or not. Given Dibling is clearly very talented, then there's a reason he's languishing on the bench that's not talent related. The manager has specifically mentioned this previously too, so it's not like I'm just making things up.

Players have to take responsibility for their careers... If Dibling wants to be a premier league footballer he needs to match his talent with the unshakable desire to succeed no matter what. There's only a very small number of people every year who play at this level, no one has the right to expect it, regardless of transfer fee. Go earn the right.

Right but…beyond the fact he isn’t playing and they are, you have absolutely no idea what the justification is.

If anything the manager has said he’s happy with how he’s working?

It could be a tactical element, it could be mental on Tyler’s side, it could be nerves, it could be physical. It could be that in duals following a lost ball, Tyler does not recover the ball in the same way that George or Ndiaye or even McNeil would. It could be that Tyler proclivity to drift leaves out shit full backs exposed. It could be that Moyes doesn’t like his little face.

You have decided it is a lack of application because logically it fits and you are shaping reality to confirm that idea. Armstrong does apply himself therefore Tyler does not.

[TheRam]

Armstrong gets game time, he's started every game this season in fact. If you're showing what the manager wants you'll get games, so I don't buy the whole being a poor place for young players to develop. George also currently starting every game. Historically yes, but right now no.

I also disagree it's a mentality stuck in the 80s... You look at the % of players from academies that make it as premier league footballers, it's miniscule. You can get quite far though on talent alone, especially if you're naturally very highly talented. The difference then between those that go on to have long successful careers is whether you have the drive to succeed or not. Given Dibling is clearly very talented, then there's a reason he's languishing on the bench that's not talent related. The manager has specifically mentioned this previously too, so it's not like I'm just making things up.

Players have to take responsibility for their careers... If Dibling wants to be a premier league footballer he needs to match his talent with the unshakable desire to succeed no matter what. There's only a very small number of people every year who play at this level, no one has the right to expect it, regardless of transfer fee. Go earn the right.

Armstrong was recalled from a loan last season, played out of position, was hardly seen again then was told to pack his bags for Nottingham on the morning of a game.

He’s only playing because we sold two midfielders and replaced them with someone who was already injured. I don’t think the ways we’ve handled him over the last six months suggests we’re a great environment for him or any young player.

Then you have Jake and Rhol who’ve had no meaningful minutes in their proper positions because we have a manager who’s obsessed with players doing time out wide before they’re trusted to play in the middle.

You’ve convinced yourself that Dibling isn’t playing because he has a weak mentality, when there could be a lot of other reasons as to why he isn’t playing.

He clearly doesn’t suit what the manager wants from his wide players. He should have never been bought with a manager like Moyes in charge. The club is letting him down, like we have countless other young players over the years.

[sam of the south]

£27m to Brighton in the summer, £100m goalscoring number 10 within a year

[AjaxAndy]

Armstrong was recalled from a loan last season, played out of position, was hardly seen again then was told to pack his bags for Nottingham on the morning of a game.

He’s only playing because we sold two midfielders and replaced them with someone who was already injured. I don’t think the ways we’ve handled him over the last six months suggests we’re a great environment for him or any young player.

Then you have Jake and Rhol who’ve had no meaningful minutes in their proper positions because we have a manager who’s obsessed with players doing time out wide before they’re trusted to play in the middle.

You’ve convinced yourself that Dibling isn’t playing because he has a weak mentality, when there could be a lot of other reasons as to why he isn’t playing.

He clearly doesn’t suit what the manager wants from his wide players. He should have never been bought with a manager like Moyes in charge. The club is letting him down, like we have countless other young players over the years.

Fair point on Armstrong, I'm purely looking at it from a managers perspective though, not how the club overall goes about it. Of course the way we treated Armstrong with the Forest bid was abhorrent and it's good the fans and manager both were strongly against it, which is what prevented it happening.

If Dibling doesn't suit what the manager wants, isn't it on the player to get to that level? Surely we aren't advocating playing him if he's not doing the things the manager expects? What message does that send to the rest of the team?

@brap2 has quoted Rohl and O'Brien as examples, but they both have or get decent minutes. They don't have CMs getting in ahead of them... There's a reason that's happening, and just to say it's the manager or club is a very basic view.

As a player if you're sitting there getting splinters in your arse watching players play out of position over you, then you need to look deep inside and question what you could and should be doing to prevent that happening.

Hopefully tomorrow he gets a chance and does just that. I don't want him to fail, I want him to succeed, but he as yet hasn't and needs imo to take responsibility over what comes next, starting with tomorrow.

[Surax]

Fair point on Armstrong, I'm purely looking at it from a managers perspective though, not how the club overall goes about it. Of course the way we treated Armstrong with the Forest bid was abhorrent and it's good the fans and manager both were strongly against it, which is what prevented it happening.

If Dibling doesn't suit what the manager wants, isn't it on the player to get to that level? Surely we aren't advocating playing him if he's not doing the things the manager expects? What message does that send to the rest of the team?

@brap2 has quoted Rohl and O'Brien as examples, but they both have or get decent minutes. They don't have CMs getting in ahead of them... There's a reason that's happening, and just to say it's the manager or club is a very basic view.

As a player if you're sitting there getting splinters in your arse watching players play out of position over you, then you need to look deep inside and question what you could and should be doing to prevent that happening.

Hopefully tomorrow he gets a chance and does just that. I don't want him to fail, I want him to succeed, but he as yet hasn't and needs imo to take responsibility over what comes next, starting with tomorrow.

Sort of, but I think it's a bit more complicated than that. He has a career to think about and I think there's only so much you can realistically change your game, and would be willing to or should do, at this stage. IMO. Improve parts of your game, absolutely, but if his style and way of playing isn't what the manager wants...what is he supposed to do? The idea that a player in the Premier League will just completely change who they are and how they play is naive (not saying that you are), it's far from that easy at that age and level. You don't just go from not suiting a style of play and a system to being a perfect fit overnight. It's different if you're like 10 years old in a youth system and you can change position like it's nothing. It's hard and takes a lot of effort to adapt your skillset and style of play when you're already at the top level competing against some of the best in the world that know exactly what they're doing.

Rohl hasn't played a single game yet in his natural position. O'Brien barely. Whether they're getting minutes or not, I don't personally think that's so important in this instance. You spend over 20m on an AM in Rohl, he's playing out of his depth at right back because he is quick. He isn't learning or developing much from that at all. I dislike this playing players wide to move into the middle stuff a lot of the time. There are cases when it's valuable e.g. developing a ball confident centre back who clearly has that in their locker and by playing them at RB or something you give them some on the ball time where they can improve on something they already have a knack for. Otherwise I think it's a negative approach - you're trying to develop players into a jack of all, master of none type of player. If you bring a player in because they have a specific valuable skillset and decide you want to detract from that and develop other areas there's a risk that you're going to limit the potential of the very thing you initially saw in them and signed them for.

With a few exceptions, this does seem like Moyes' kind of approach, though - he likes players who are rounded and give their all, we see very few "specialist" type players at Everton. Particularly with attackers he has a knack of training the danger out of them, having them play deeper or in the channels and reducing their impact on games. He's done it for years and not just at Everton. He makes his teams harder to beat and he's done a great job in steadying our ship, but I don't think he has a particularly good track record for developing talent. He was the right man for the situation we were in, but I don't think he's the one to take us forward.

[brap2]

Fair point on Armstrong, I'm purely looking at it from a managers perspective though, not how the club overall goes about it. Of course the way we treated Armstrong with the Forest bid was abhorrent and it's good the fans and manager both were strongly against it, which is what prevented it happening.

If Dibling doesn't suit what the manager wants, isn't it on the player to get to that level? Surely we aren't advocating playing him if he's not doing the things the manager expects? What message does that send to the rest of the team?

@brap2 has quoted Rohl and O'Brien as examples, but they both have or get decent minutes. They don't have CMs getting in ahead of them... There's a reason that's happening, and just to say it's the manager or club is a very basic view.

As a player if you're sitting there getting splinters in your arse watching players play out of position over you, then you need to look deep inside and question what you could and should be doing to prevent that happening.

Hopefully tomorrow he gets a chance and does just that. I don't want him to fail, I want him to succeed, but he as yet hasn't and needs imo to take responsibility over what comes next, starting with tomorrow.

No I haven’t.

And I’m not sure Jake would agree re his decent minutes.

[AjaxAndy]

No I haven’t.

And I’m not sure Jake would agree re his decent minutes.

Jake's had loads of minutes, the issue is they aren't in his natural position. Which is fine if he then gets to move central and benefit from that period where he's had to develop his ball playing skills.

The fact he's now sat on his arse admittedly isn't a ringing endorsement of how his career path has been handled.

[StirlingBlue]

We saw recently how Moyes was preferring Keane as 3rd choice over O'Brien and Rohl only got minutes out of desperation where a body was needed to fill a hole not because of some plan to develop him.

It's just crazy to me how you think Dibling can just go off and morph himself into something that Moyes wants rather than it being Moyes' job to develop a young talent into a first team quality player. I was fine with a slow introduction last year whilst he got fitness up, bedded into the squad etc but to be at the point we're at now and have a CM come on at RW ahead of him is shockingly bad management.

Moyes clearly doesn't see his future being here beyond the end of this season so doesn't care about development for the future