David Moyes

[MayorFarnham]

His mood may be driven by the club. Now he's here he's realised that all that the owners want is a safe pair of hands to keep us treading water.
Maybe his connection to the club and lack of decent alternative opportunities has him gritting his teeth and ploughing on.
He was obviously delighted to be back but that didn't seem to last very long.

[Cods]

Can go the other way though.

Boring and depressing listening to the same people constantly giving the benefit of the doubt despite all evidence to the contrary.

Do you still believe we’re holding tight in the market waiting for value and quality like @AjaxAndy did last summer?

He’s been our manager for thirteen years. He’s very easy to predict.

As is this club on the whole. I’d love to be the other way, but I can’t with what we’ve been served up through the years.

I think it's a difference in perception of reality.

Some seem to forget where we've been the last decade, scratch that, three decades.

We still think we should be European regulars? Having little experience of it at all in truth, and have never been so far behind the leading pack financially.

Chelsea finished 3 points ahead of us last season whilst spending net £0.8bn over the last 5 years. We've spent £80m.

We're impatient. The fanbase largely is going to have to adjust. This is not happening quickly, just as it didn't for Bournemouth, Brighton et al.

We all, of course, want success and soon.

[Kerryblueboy]

I think it's a difference in perception of reality.

Some seem to forget where we've been the last decade, scratch that, three decades.

We still think we should be European regulars? Having little experience of it at all in truth, and have never been so far behind the leading pack financially.

Chelsea finished 3 points ahead of us last season whilst spending net £0.8bn over the last 5 years. We've spent £80m.

We're impatient. The fanbase largely is going to have to adjust. This is not happening quickly, just as it didn't for Bournemouth, Brighton et al.

We all, of course, want success and soon.

Listen lad Europe was right there for us last season and Moyes shit the bed by being too rigid and loyal to players then got sour when called out on it I have zero faith he will get anything other than the same again this season maybe even lower down

[AjaxAndy]

Listen lad Europe was right there for us last season and Moyes shit the bed by being too rigid and loyal to players then got sour when called out on it I have zero faith he will get anything other than the same again this season maybe even lower down

I think that's a valid concern, and if we see the same again I'll be calling for his head. The younger players have really stepped up in pre-season, and they look like valid options for either starting or coming off the bench to change games.

I absolutely do not want to see them held back and other players flogged to death, so there's a definite requirement for Moyes to show something different this season to last.

I think last season there maybe was some validation in not using certain players, but this season there isn't. They look ready and they must be used. No excuses.

[TheRam]

I think it's a difference in perception of reality.

Some seem to forget where we've been the last decade, scratch that, three decades.

We still think we should be European regulars? Having little experience of it at all in truth, and have never been so far behind the leading pack financially.

Chelsea finished 3 points ahead of us last season whilst spending net £0.8bn over the last 5 years. We've spent £80m.

We're impatient. The fanbase largely is going to have to adjust. This is not happening quickly, just as it didn't for Bournemouth, Brighton et al.

We all, of course, want success and soon.

You can’t bring up the last thirty years and say we’re impatient mate.

The club should count themselves lucky that 50k still want to turn up every week.

Europe is the bare minimum expectation and should always be in an era where nine teams are qualifying for Europe.

Easier than ever to qualify for Europe. Easier than ever to win European competition.

[Cods]

Listen lad Europe was right there for us last season and Moyes shit the bed by being too rigid and loyal to players then got sour when called out on it I have zero faith he will get anything other than the same again this season maybe even lower down

We overperformed considerably last season compared with the underlying stats. Did we deserve to be that high during the early and middle part of the season? Not really. Should have finished 14th by xPts.

The last few games were poor, but we also were due some luck evening out our results based upon how we were actually playing. It evened out across the season. Just a shame in one sense that we got the sniff but didn't do enough to get over the line. The numbers suggest we shouldn't have been close.

In the end there were only 5pts between Bournemouth in 7th and us in 13th. It was very congested.

I'd suggest we're slightly better positioned this season given our main competition will be in Europe and maybe don't have the squads to compete well in both, whilst we're another step into the rebuild, and another 2 windows to add depth if we make it this time.

Newcastle Forest Spurs and Palace all finished equal or below us largely because they were also in Europe. Squad depth and timing matters.


Moyes played a straight bat and played down interviewer's question after question about Europe, until right towards the end. He never talked up questions about Europe, merely reluctantly agreed with reporters that, yes, we had a chance with a few games to go. He didn't want to add the pressure and he'll feel he was right all along talking it down.

He knew we overperformed across the season - most fans didn't seem to understand his point.

[Cods]

You can’t bring up the last thirty years and say we’re impatient mate.

The club should count themselves lucky that 50k still want to turn up every week.

Europe is the bare minimum expectation and should always be in an era where nine teams are qualifying for Europe.

Easier than ever to qualify for Europe. Easier than ever to win European competition.

I'm emphasising the last decade re finances, the decade which is most relevant to where we are now. The decade we gutted our squad of almost all quality in order to actually remain a going concern.

9 qualify for Europe next season,
8 did last season,
7 the last few seasons previous. (If you want to count the Conference League)

If 6 clubs have endless pots of money, we're effectively competing with 14 clubs for maybe 2/3 spots.

That doesn't include Newcastle who could be considerably richer than us, or the 'smart clubs' who have played brilliant hands.

We've spent the 5th least of anyone currently in the league the last half decade. Europe should be bare minimum?

It's about money. It correlates.

We skint! For the moment at least.

[Kerryblueboy]

I'm emphasising the last decade re finances, the decade which is most relevant to where we are now. The decade we gutted our squad of almost all quality in order to actually remain a going concern.

9 qualify for Europe next season,
8 did last season,
7 the last few seasons previous. (If you want to count the Conference League)

If 6 clubs have endless pots of money, we're effectively competing with 14 clubs for maybe 2/3 spots.

That doesn't include Newcastle who could be considerably richer than us, or the 'smart clubs' who have played brilliant hands.

We've spent the 5th least of anyone currently in the league the last half decade. Europe should be bare minimum?

It's about money. It correlates.

We skint! For the moment at least.

It’s this kind of defeatist attitude that Moyes plays to why shouldn’t we be challenging for Europe we did last season until the last 6 games the young players we bought last summer should surely be ready by now say something positive rather than downplaying us as usual

[TheRam]

I'm emphasising the last decade re finances, the decade which is most relevant to where we are now. The decade we gutted our squad of almost all quality in order to actually remain a going concern.

9 qualify for Europe next season,
8 did last season,
7 the last few seasons previous. (If you want to count the Conference League)

If 6 clubs have endless pots of money, we're effectively competing with 14 clubs for maybe 2/3 spots.

That doesn't include Newcastle who could be considerably richer than us, or the 'smart clubs' who have played brilliant hands.

We've spent the 5th least of anyone currently in the league the last half decade. Europe should be bare minimum?

It's about money. It correlates.

We skint! For the moment at least.

That’s just excuses to me mate.

We put ourselves in a great position last year and the manager blew it.

Europe should be the bare minimum expectation for this club from here on in, yes.

Of course, we’re not going to qualify for it every single year, but we should definitely push towards being a regulars in Europe.

If that isn’t your expectation then what’s the point?

[Bumble]

His mood may be driven by the club. Now he's here he's realised that all that the owners want is a safe pair of hands to keep us treading water.
Maybe his connection to the club and lack of decent alternative opportunities has him gritting his teeth and ploughing on.
He was obviously delighted to be back but that didn't seem to last very long.

Or maybe he has realised that this isn't the Everton he remembers, where he had free rein to say and do as he pleases as he had Kenwright above.

Now he is accountable, doesn't have the run of all transfer dealings and a fanbase that have different expectations.

Plus, of course, his contract running down and seemingly no desire from above to extend.

[Cods]

It’s this kind of defeatist attitude that Moyes plays to why shouldn’t we be challenging for Europe we did last season until the last 6 games the young players we bought last summer should surely be ready by now say something positive rather than downplaying us as usual

I'm neither being defeatist or defending Moyes. I'm just saying it as I feel it is.
On balance.
Objectively.
Using facts.
And statistics.

I'm just saying get your mind past the cherry picked last 6 games (which obviously and understandably hurt) and look at the season as a whole.

What you're saying is almost equivalent to saying "Had we won the games we lost, we'd definitely be in Europe."

[Raptor]

I'm neither being defeatist or defending Moyes. I'm just saying it as I feel it is.
On balance.
Objectively.
Using facts.
And statistics.

I'm just saying get your mind past the cherry picked last 6 games (which obviously and understandably hurt) and look at the season as a whole.

What you're saying is almost equivalent to saying "Had we won the games we lost, we'd definitely be in Europe."

Getting your mind part the cherry picked last 6 games is an interesting take as the games outside of this statistically weren't that different, it was just that the results masked the performance.
People look at positive results and assume positive performance, a lot of our wins came despite being second best in XG, possession etc, etc.
The last 6 games were more of a correction of what our performances deserved and weren't skewed by the likes of Picks making X wonder saves every game to get us 3 points, it was almost an inevitability that there would be a big drop off as it statistically wasnt sustainable

[Cods]

Getting your mind part the cherry picked last 6 games is an interesting take as the games outside of this statistically weren't that different, it was just that the results masked the performance.
People look at positive results and assume positive performance, a lot of our wins came despite being second best in XG, possession etc, etc.
The last 6 games were more of a correction of what our performances deserved and weren't skewed by the likes of Picks making X wonder saves every game to get us 3 points, it was almost an inevitability that there would be a big drop off as it statistically wasnt sustainable

Reverting to the mean is my point, yes.

We were in a European spot yet our underlying numbers had us 14th. We'd snatched and grabbed and fluked a few, maybe put heavy emphasis on earlier games and ran out of gas etc...

We could have just as likely dangled just above relegation for most of the season and finished with a bang and improved to 13th. In that case Europe would be seen as fanciful in the extreme. (Hope I'm understanding you correctly)

[TheRam]

Reverting to the mean is my point, yes.

We were in a European spot yet our underlying numbers had us 14th. We'd snatched and grabbed and fluked a few, maybe put heavy emphasis on earlier games and ran out of gas etc...

We could have just as likely dangled just above relegation for most of the season and finished with a bang and improved to 13th. In that case Europe would be seen as fanciful in the extreme. (Hope I'm understanding you correctly)

If only the manager could have an influence on our underlying metrics so our results were more sustainable.

[Cods]

That’s just excuses to me mate.

We put ourselves in a great position last year and the manager blew it.

Europe should be the bare minimum expectation for this club from here on in, yes.

Of course, we’re not going to qualify for it every single year, but we should definitely push towards being a regulars in Europe.

If that isn’t your expectation then what’s the point?

Reasons, or at the very least, contributing factors, don't have to be excuses.

Yes our short to mid term goal should certainly be Europe - that we didn't make it in the first of our next 20 goes at it should maybe not be such a shock, or a huge disappointment.