David Moyes

[777Kidnappings]

I'll be brutally honest here and pull no punches, probably won't be liked, but as a collective club and fanbase we are continually season upon season looking for excuses to mask failure for the best part of 40 years.

We were told over two decades ago we required a new stadium to move forward. Really? try telling Palace and Villa fans that.
Relegation battles should never have occured but they occured due to the investment directed towards buiding a multi million pound football stadium instead of investment going on the footballing side.
Now that we have endured a few relegation scraps, we it engrained in our minds and fear the worse and we should be grateful we aren't in a relegation scrap.

Is this the levels and standards we are at?

I think we are a fanbase who loved moshiris decisions right up until they blew up in our faces and still want similar now but with different results. Sentiment and making statements. I think bringing Coleman on summed up everything what is wrong. Our season is dying and we bring on an aging right back to give him the send off he deserved. Feels like we are a million miles away from what the well run clubs are doing.

[Bumble]

I think we have become such a nothing club in recent times that people from the outside perceive the fact that we are still in the division as an accomplishment and our manager constantly reinforces that narrative whenever he speaks.

[AjaxAndy]

I'll be brutally honest here and pull no punches, probably won't be liked, but as a collective club and fanbase we are continually season upon season looking for excuses to mask failure for the best part of 40 years.

We were told over two decades ago we required a new stadium to move forward. Really? try telling Palace and Villa fans that.
Relegation battles should never have occured but they occured due to the investment directed towards buiding a multi million pound football stadium instead of investment going on the footballing side.
Now that we have endured a few relegation scraps, we it engrained in our minds and fear the worse and we should be grateful we aren't in a relegation scrap.

Is this the levels and standards we are at?

Is that right about the investment in the squad though? Surely the chronic lack of investment in the squad, and sales of our best players was due to over investing, and investing poorly in the squad... Not because we built a new stadium?

[StirlingBlue]

I think the end of the season might push the Friedkins to move him on in the summer, purely because of what it means for recruitment.

If you're an up and coming player looking to prove yourself and earn your move to the top teams (the profile we should be going for) then the lack of european football might be a blocking point, combining that with a dour defensive manager who prefers to give playtime to his favourite "trusted" players and you'd be crazy to come here.

However, if we have a more progressive manager who has been shown to give his players a good plaftform (like Glasner did for Eze/Olise or Iraola did for Semenyo/Solanke/Huijsen/Zabarnyi/Kerkez) then those exciting high potential players might come here.

[StirlingBlue]

Current flavour of the month Iraola - and I’m not saying he’s a bad manager, he obviously isn’t - but he’s had a couple of long winless streaks while in charge at Bournemouth which, if happened here it’s possible he wouldn’t survive them. There’s far more pressure here than at Bournemouth.

Easier to allow for those winless moments when you have exciting football at other times vs some 1-0 wins against the run of play though.

Plus, look at the players Brounemouth have sold under him and he's reinvented the team well. In the last year they lost Semenyo, Solanke, Zabarnyi, Huijsen, Kerkez & Ouattara all for big money

[UnsyisaRhino]

I think we're so frustrated with the missed opportunity that we're running the risk of devaluing or dismissing recent history as being a mindset issue or some sort of trauma response to a couple of years of underperformance. Context matters, it's not just where we were and points totals, it's the foundations we're building from, the squad (imbalanced, weird mix of untrusted youth and rundown, low-talent experience), the talent available (limited), the mindset (weak as fuck).

Where we should be, what we should be aiming for, and our history don't change 6-7 years of diabolical decision making and the end of season collapse outlined that reality perfectly.

We all know the weakness in both the squad and first team, that certain positions have absolutely no quality and others have limited quality and no depth or alternatives, that's not a problem we could realistically solve in the time Moyes has had with us, and takes time, stability and consistency to fix. It's a problem any manager is going to inherit and have to solve and for some managers, their specific style and requirements might make that problem a bigger one.

Moyes will always do well with limited resources, he'll take what he has, instil a method and mindset that'll work more than it won't, and then he gets you to grind out results. I think it's what we needed, but, and it's a big but, is that what we still need moving forward and are we ready to take the next step?

We've still got so many problems that sticking with someone who can help rebuild the fundamentals that we require from any Everton team might be right for another window or two....but if we could the right person in now who can handle those challenges and is more likely to push us to where we want to be, I think we have to take that chance. If there's even a chance of getting Iraola in, I'd take it without hesitation.

[UnsyisaRhino]

Is that right about the investment in the squad though? Surely the chronic lack of investment in the squad, and sales of our best players was due to over investing, and investing poorly in the squad... Not because we built a new stadium?

Probably both contributed, but the transfer spending has the dual impact of having no positive.

It started due to poor spending and crazy wages and was then accelerated by the stadium project hoovering up any money that could have been used to dig us out of that hole.

[StirlingBlue]

We've still got so many problems that sticking with someone who can help rebuild the fundamentals that we require from any Everton team might be right for another window or two....but if we could the right person in now who can handle those challenges and is more likely to push us to where we want to be, I think we have to take that chance. If there's even a chance of getting Iraola in, I'd take it without hesitation.

I don't see sticking with Moyes for another year as building fundamentals ready for the next manager as Moyes will continue with the likes of Tarks/Keane/Myko/McNeil rather than using the younger players - that isn't helping us.

If we had finished 10th this season whilst bringing through Aznou, Dibling, Rohl, O'Brien (at CB), Armstrong, George, Iroegbunam etc with lots of minutes and ready to be the starters next season then nobody would be calling for Moyes to leave

[kramer]

It’s a difficult crossroads.

We need someone who can buck up our ideas with the ball, be a bit braver tactically in important matches, and rotate the squad and use subs proactively.

And all of that without sacrificing the work rate, commitment, and “no cunts” dressing room that keeps our floor high and keeps the fanbase mostly onside even when results dry up (like this recent run).

It’s a hard tightrope to walk. I think we only see Moyes go if we can pull off the equivalent of Roma getting Gasperini and I don’t even know who that is in the PL. Glasner and Iraola probably the closest but I also really don’t know about them behind the scenes.

[UnsyisaRhino]

I don't see sticking with Moyes for another year as building fundamentals ready for the next manager as Moyes will continue with the likes of Tarks/Keane/Myko/McNeil rather than using the younger players - that isn't helping us.

If we had finished 10th this season whilst bringing through Aznou, Dibling, Rohl, O'Brien (at CB), Armstrong, George, Iroegbunam etc with lots of minutes and ready to be the starters next season then nobody would be calling for Moyes to leave

Fair, but is 10th with six or seven kids getting their first real Prem minutes actually a realistic benchmark? Trying to integrate that much youth at once generally causes results to take a hit. You also need to be able to rely on the more experienced players to be solid contributors, who don't panic when things go sideways.

As you highlighted, we've got Tarks/Keane/Myko/McNeil instead. You could probably add Pickford onto that list from a leadership/mentality perspective at times.

[brap2]

I think I’m leaning towards Moyes Out.

Concern being we take another ‘stability year’. He buys poorly, team improves a bit, we go nowhere, younger players leave, older players don’t. Year after that starts looking like another difficult stability year…ad infinity.

[AjaxAndy]

I'd swap Moyes for Ireola, but equally I wouldn't take a punt on a manager from abroad. I the appeal with Ireola is that it's almost risk free, and there seems to be only upsides.

You bring in a guy from somewhere else and we could easily go backwards instead of forwards.

I wouldn't take Glasner, although I think he's an excellent manager his football is extremely direct, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if we made a change I'd want us to do so with a more enjoyable style in mind.

[sam of the south]

I agree with so much of what most of you have written today, however I think it’s all moot.

I’m certain he’s staying, and I’m pretty certain he will be given a lot of control over recruitment this summer.

[777Kidnappings]

Can we revote. Think the outcome would be significantly different now

[brap2]

I'd swap Moyes for Ireola, but equally I wouldn't take a punt on a manager from abroad. I the appeal with Ireola is that it's almost risk free, and there seems to be only upsides.

You bring in a guy from somewhere else and we could easily go backwards instead of forwards.

I wouldn't take Glasner, although I think he's an excellent manager his football is extremely direct, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if we made a change I'd want us to do so with a more enjoyable style in mind.

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