James Garner

[Audrey Horne]

So will garner if rumours are anything to go by

yeah i hope so too. Not good enough. Crab. Let him go United. Not like they ever spend their money well....

[Escalator]

Hope the contract extension triggers automatically, need such a versatile squad player at least another year whilst we go into second phase of re build.

[brap2]

Found this tool to compare post-recovery actions, which essentially is what players do after recovering the ball?

Seemed fun anyway so I had a look at Wharton, Anderson and Garner.

[Cods]

Found this tool to compare post-recovery actions, which essentially is what players do after recovering the ball?

Seemed fun anyway so I had a look at Wharton, Anderson and Garner.

What were your findings?

Devils advocate, but...

-Progressive carries were on par.
-Back passes were considerably fewer than particularly Anderson.
-Progressive passes well down (who does he have to pass to in front of him? Sideways are where our ball carriers (Grealish/NDiaye) often are, particularly after a ball recovery. To the eye, often he'll be in front of them, as they'll be covering their full backs.
-Ball recoveries lower
(might instead have his heat seeking team mate to thank for this result)

I guess the questions are:

How is he directed to play?
How are we set up to play? (Our forward passing often comes from our centre backs and GK)
Who does he have to play it to, and where are they normally standing?

For me it brings up the image of poor young Merlin the other day who made a great forward run, only to find he had noone within 30 yards to play to. We are still clunky as a team in possession, despite a bit of improvement.

Apart from any 'inate' preference and/or assurances he may have/need in his way of playing, maybe Garner might also like the idea of having MGW, CHO, NDoye, Hutchison, Kamada, Sarr, Nketia and Mateta in front of him, than say Grealish(slow), Beto(ball control), Barry(awareness/retention), KDH (pace).

He's arguably the best defensively and on the scoresheet of the three:

Garner.......1G, 2A, 79 Tkls, 83 Intcpt, 30 Blks
Anderson..1G, 1A, 84 Tkls, 51 Intcpt, 32 Blks
Wharton....0G, 2A, 60 Tkls, 73 Intcpt, 12 Blks


He does seem to prefer the one touch pass-and-move of the England youth (when he has players on the same wavelength) but hasnt had that option in the main in his time here.

I think he's doing the job Moyes asks of him. Recover, simple ball, get it wide to our possession experts, cover the slow CBs and full backs.

If Brathwaite was back, maybe partnered with Jake and some new full backs, I'd expect those stats to look different. I think a chunk of these comparisons are assuming they're asked to do the same job.

[brap2]

What were your findings?

Devils advocate, but...

-Progressive carries were on par.
-Back passes were considerably fewer than particularly Anderson.
-Progressive passes well down (who does he have to pass to in front of him? Sideways are where our ball carriers (Grealish/NDiaye) often are, particularly after a ball recovery. To the eye, often he'll be in front of them, as they'll be covering their full backs.
-Ball recoveries lower
(might instead have his heat seeking team mate to thank for this result)

I guess the questions are:

How is he directed to play?
How are we set up to play? (Our forward passing often comes from our centre backs and GK)
Who does he have to play it to, and where are they normally standing?

For me it brings up the image of poor young Merlin the other day who made a great forward run, only to find he had noone within 30 yards to play to. We are still clunky as a team in possession, despite a bit of improvement.

Apart from any 'inate' preference and/or assurances he may have/need in his way of playing, maybe Garner might also like the idea of having MGW, CHO, NDoye, Hutchison, Kamada, Sarr, Nketia and Mateta in front of him, than say Grealish(slow), Beto(ball control), Barry(awareness/retention), KDH (pace).

He's arguably the best defensively and on the scoresheet of the three:

Garner.......1G, 2A, 79 Tkls, 83 Intcpt, 30 Blks
Anderson..1G, 1A, 84 Tkls, 51 Intcpt, 32 Blks
Wharton....0G, 2A, 60 Tkls, 73 Intcpt, 12 Blks


He does seem to prefer the one touch pass-and-move of the England youth (when he has players on the same wavelength) but hasnt had that option in the main in his time here.

I think he's doing the job Moyes asks of him. Recover, simple ball, get it wide to our possession experts, cover the slow CBs and full backs.

If Brathwaite was back, maybe partnered with Jake and some new full backs, I'd expect those stats to look different. I think a chunk of these comparisons are assuming they're asked to do the same job.

Comes back to the patterns of play conversation a bit doesn't it?

Also probably comes back to the long-running 'our teams crap' conversation/s.

But talking specifically about what Garner looks like compared to the two players you would probably compare him to based on nationality and position - I would say that Garner looks less adventurous with the ball, and poorer at recovering the ball in general.

Surprised by back passes because I feel like he constantly passes backwards, but maybe my bias showing there - or maybe we don't have the ball anywhere near as much as forest and palace? Not adjusted for possession these metrics are they.

Would better players around him improve his metrics? You'd imagine so.

Do I think he's better than Wharton or Anderson and does this tool support that view? Nope.

[TheRam]

I just think he quite obviously isn’t as good as either of those players and we don’t need to be too clever about asking why.

[Shogun]

Bring back the eye test I say

[777Kidnappings]

Hes done really well this season but it also feels like this is his ceiling and even at this ceiling hes got little that makes him stand out. Hes a bit of a plodder which is fine for where we are but its not fine to pay him 100k a week for 5 years to stay

If we are offered reasonable money for him id rather we take that than extend his contract on money hes probably not worth

[AjaxAndy]

I don't think this is his ceiling tbh, but I also don't think he's many levels to go to... He's improved this year and if he did that over the next couple of years he'd be a pretty decent player.

He's only 24 so a year older than Barry, and I reckon he's a couple of years from reaching his peak.

He's probably in that mid tier of importance when it comes to replacing, so that means another couple of seasons of regularly starting. I'm fine with that, if he's not kicked on enough by that point I'd still keep him around as he's a good versatile squad player.

[Bumble]

Can't blame the lad, he has us over a barrel really and his agent knows it. He's a decent versatile player but I'm sure with a bit of luck and some good coaching either Armstring, Irogbunam or maybe Rohl can hopefully replicate what he gives without us overpaying just keep him at the club.

[Matt1878]

Average salary in the PL is about 70k pw, that is dragged upwards by CL clubs. Everton is about 50k pw.

100k pw should be to ward off similar offers from a CL club as we know a player is CL quality, so Ndiaye, Pickford, Branthwaite. It shouldn't be to ward off daft offers from more desperate clubs like Newcastle. If they want to pay him over the odds we should sell given his current contract status

His versatility has been a huge plus this season but once we sort the FB situation and he is just fighting for a CM spot then that importance drops a bit. I'd be happy to recognise his importance to the club with a contract of 60k pw to reflect his status in the 1st team, not much more. Sell and replace if he wants 100k, if he can get it, fair play to him.

[777Kidnappings]

Its hard to know what hes worth. 100k a week seems ridiculous but I would imagine pretty much all our guaranteed starters who we want to stay guaranteed starters are either on similar or will be requesting similar soon. Hes probably worth that if we see him as a regular for the next few years. The issue is most probably hope he isn't

[kramer]

He’s rock solid.

Glad we have him for now but if we could sell him and put the money into someone who protects space and uses the ball well, that would be tremendous.

[Cods]

I just think he quite obviously isn’t as good as either of those players and we don’t need to be too clever about asking why.

Better add another goal to that tally.

[Cods]

...and an incredible assist.