Amadou Onana

[brap2]

I think I understand the key difference that we're having here.

- wow he looks a good player

- wow he's having a great game

These are different observations that are not mutually exclusive and we're arguing over them.

Id also say, probably my last thing because I am keeping this thread on life support with my constant blabber, but - it's very very hard to stand out as a deep CM in a side that doesn't want the ball.

He's a 6 foot bloody god knows what space eater who is already a defensive monster, great in the air, and on the ball he's very comfortable despite being in *this* team.

If he adds basically anything to his game from that point, he becomes a top top tier midfielder. If you don't see that or don't believe that that's fine, but it does appear that plenty of the world's top clubs disagree.

[superpull]

Before the Sheff U game I mentioned to my dad he'd be the one I'd sell out of our assets and my kid asked me why, because he likes him.

"He's a great player who will go on to be even better at a club much bigger than us. But for us he's just a good player who is worth more in pounds than what he's doing on the pitch."

Replaceable by a player that doesn't have anywhere near the ceiling Onana does

[Kerryblueboy]

He is a ball player who wants to play whereas dyche wants his midfielders to press and tackle rather than pass or carry the ball so he is wholly unsuited to our current style

[superpull]

He is a ball player who wants to play whereas dyche wants his midfielders to press and tackle rather than pass or carry the ball so he is wholly unsuited to our current style

midfielder has pressed and then tackled, they aren't under instructions to then give the ball back to the opposition so they can press and tackle again are they?
It's a ridiculous notion that it is *all* he wants. He wants them to do *something* once they have won it back.
Winning it back is definitely more important to him than what they subsequently do, i would agree with that.

But:
Parkinson turning over possession and getting it to Kanchelskis
Carsley getting the ball and laying it off to Arteta
Gueye homing on on somebody and making sure the ball landed somewhere near Baines/Pienaar

The marauding, high-tempo, ground-covering midfielder doesn't have to as good with the ball as Onana to work well in an Everton team.

(i also take into account our attacking options are significantly worse than those mentioned. But my point stands)

[AjaxAndy]

Think the 'it's all Dyche's / the tactics fault' is a pretty lazy shout tbh (risky using lazy I know ).

He could impose himself on the game a whole lot more and that's on him and no one else. Now that might be attitude, it might be experience, who knows... but the system and manager aren't preventing him from influencing games more regularly.

[Kerryblueboy]

How can a midfielder impose himself when the ball is constantly flying over his head

[Bluebridge]

How can a midfielder impose himself when the ball is constantly flying over his head

But it’s not though is it, the midfield gets plenty of the ball. I like the lad, he’s a good player, just doesn’t show it enough or seem to have the desire a lot of the time, only when it suits him. I’d be sorry to see him go, but at the same time I don’t think we’ll miss him either.

[Kerryblueboy]

When we have brownhill and garner next season we might appreciate what we had in this lad

[StirlingBlue]

Think the 'it's all Dyche's / the tactics fault' is a pretty lazy shout tbh (risky using lazy I know ).

He could impose himself on the game a whole lot more and that's on him and no one else. Now that might be attitude, it might be experience, who knows... but the system and manager aren't preventing him from influencing games more regularly.

It is tactics though, whenever you watch us he looks more comfortable than anybody else on the ball but he’s not a dribbler or somebody going to put the ball in from 30 yards so he can’t excel in a solo way.

You could put Busquets or Rodri in our midfield and they would look similar, it’s not made for a player like that who needs others around him.

[AjaxAndy]

It is tactics though, whenever you watch us he looks more comfortable than anybody else on the ball but he’s not a dribbler or somebody going to put the ball in from 30 yards so he can’t excel in a solo way.

You could put Busquets or Rodri in our midfield and they would look similar, it’s not made for a player like that who needs others around him.

If we were a possession based side he'd see more of the ball, I'm not disputing that... But having more of the ball doesn't mean he'd take more responsibility to actually influence the game.

He receives the ball often enough in this team to show he's very comfortable receiving the ball from the CBs and redistributing it, but he very rarely impacts the game with the ball.

I don't feel if you gave him more of the ball he'd necessarily impact the game more and that's why I'm saying it's more Onana than the manager.

Has the tools, doesn't use them enough to influence a game and that doesn't change purely by having a different manager in charge.

[StirlingBlue]

If we were a possession based side he'd see more of the ball, I'm not disputing that... But having more of the ball doesn't mean he'd take more responsibility to actually influence the game.

He receives the ball often enough in this team to show he's very comfortable receiving the ball from the CBs and redistributing it, but he very rarely impacts the game with the ball.

I don't feel if you gave him more of the ball he'd necessarily impact the game more and that's why I'm saying it's more Onana than the manager.

Has the tools, doesn't use them enough to influence a game and that doesn't change purely by having a different manager in charge.

It’s not that he doesn’t the receive the ball often enough, he does that very well and turns to pass forward - but it’s not his job to make the killer pass to the forward that you seem to be expecting. It’s his job to receive, resist pressure and pass through the lines to the next player and he already does that well.

Busquets is a great example, he averaged 2 or 3 assists a season but you wouldn’t criticise him for “not impacting the game”

[TheRam]

When we have brownhill and garner next season we might appreciate what we had in this lad

We can all appreciate his talent I think.

Just some expected more, others think it’s down to the tactics.

Whatever it is, he’s clearly a very good player.

Good luck to him. £60m for a player not suited to us. Amazing business if it happens.

[AjaxAndy]

It’s not that he doesn’t the receive the ball often enough, he does that very well and turns to pass forward - but it’s not his job to make the killer pass to the forward that you seem to be expecting. It’s his job to receive, resist pressure and pass through the lines to the next player and he already does that well.

Busquets is a great example, he averaged 2 or 3 assists a season but you wouldn’t criticise him for “not impacting the game”

I'm not asking him to play killer balls, I'm asking for him to play more progressive passes and not just completely vanish for long spells.

There's recycling the ball and being progressive with it, he has the ability to do both but only does one.

[AllyBlue14]

I think the notion of playing without a midfield because the ball flies over them all the time is a bit of a hyperbole really. We saw when Dyche brought in Gomes that there's a willingness and flexibility to play it on the deck a bit more.

Onana reminds me a bit of Rodwell in that I don't think we're 100% sure what kind of player he is or we want him to be. He's obviously very good, but we haven't found a role to fully accommodate him, and don't have the luxury of sacrificing the rest of the tactics to do so.

So, his contribution for us will be frustrating because we know he's capable of more but we're unlikely to ever really benefit.

[Toddacelli]

We need a boatload of bodies on the incoming tide and not much money to pay for them means we will not be able to be too picky.

Entertaining myself now with daydreams of a young team of punts and runts, all having a breakthrough season and being led up the table by Onana. (sigh)

I mean, we accidentally destroyed the team by throwing money at it - couldn’t we accidentally create a young and exciting team by scrimping on it?

Please?