James Garner

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UnsyisaRhino
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Bluedylan1 wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 8:47 pm Yeah, fair point. He's a £9m player.

It's not a personal attack on him or his integrity, it's a critique of his footballing limitations.

I wouldn't say it's really the case on this site, but I'm not sure why so many of our fans seem to have fallen in love with him and think he's great. You hear people talk about him alongside Branthwaite and Onana as great young talents in the team in a similar vein to Stones/Barkley/Lukaku once upon a time, and I think that's so far wide of the mark.
I don't think its a big mystery. He works hard, he's committed, he never stops working, he doesn't sulk or let his head go down, he's brave and tries to do the right thing even when it doesn't come off, he covers for others well and makes lots of really really good covering challenges.

He has his limitations, but he's a breath of fresh air compared to some of the shite we've been forced to endure over the last 5 years. I don't think many people are putting him in that stones/lukaku bracket, but in contrast to midfielder after midfielder who don't seem to be able to trap a ball let alone pass it more than 5 yards, he's a big step up.
UnsyisaRhino
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TheRam wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:26 am He’s constantly a good few yards off the play.

He’s never in good positions to get the ball. When he does get the ball he looks pained to play it forward.

Off the ball he is properly terrible. Weak in the challenge and just gets walked past constantly.

He’s either really lazy or just out of his depth at this level.

He’s another Sigurdsson and mcarthy for me.

Doesn’t get in the game at all, but thinks running about and putting in half arsed attempts to win the ball is impacting the game.

As others have said, we’ll be stuck with him for years to come.
This is an absolutely mental take for me. The most selective interpretation of what he brings to the game I've seen of any player in a while.

You can absolutely tell we're in a bad run of form at the moment when you start seeing stuff like this.
Shogun
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These stats are shit?

brap2
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UnsyisaRhino wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:02 pm This is an absolutely mental take for me. The most selective interpretation of what he brings to the game I've seen of any player in a while.

You can absolutely tell we're in a bad run of form at the moment when you start seeing stuff like this.
Weirdly I was thinking the same when I read your description of him - absolutely no offence intended but what does stuff like 'he tries to do the right thing even if it doesn't come off' mean?
AjaxAndy
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Were those stats taken from the cup game against them? 🤣

It bares very little resemblance of what I saw last night, but I have been saying for ages he does loads that people don't pick up on because it's not exciting, like covering full backs out of position and getting vital blocks in.

He was so subtle with it last night even I didn't notice him do anything though tbh.
UnsyisaRhino
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brap2 wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:06 pm Weirdly I was thinking the same when I read your description of him - absolutely no offence intended but what does stuff like 'he tries to do the right thing even if it doesn't come off' mean?
I mean I don't think it's that complicated. We have had, and still have now, lots of players who won't play anything other than the safest pass, usually sideways or backwards. They won't receive the ball on the backfoot, look to turn and progress the ball forward, they won't ask for the ball in anything other than the safest situations, they won't try to play that through ball or make the third man run beyond the striker.

He'll do these things, and although sometimes it doesn't work, at least he's having a go.

As a fan base we bitch and moan about players not taking anyone on, or playing brave passes, or always passing sideways....and yet when someone does we tear them down when it doesn't always work.
brap2
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I think it sums him up quite well tbh.

Interceptions, ground duels, tackles - works hard

89% pass accuracy - technically he's ok, but he's very very safe

2 key passes - ? Presumably set pieces tbh.

53 touches and 25 passes - he's not on the ball a lot, I guess because we as a side are not.

He works hard and he's safety first, he does nothing out of the ordinary but put in cardio.
Bluenose91
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UnsyisaRhino wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:14 pm I mean I don't think it's that complicated. We have had, and still have now, lots of players who won't play anything other than the safest pass, usually sideways or backwards. They won't receive the ball on the backfoot, look to turn and progress the ball forward, they won't ask for the ball in anything other than the safest situations, they won't try to play that through ball or make the third man run beyond the striker.

He'll do these things, and although sometimes it doesn't work, at least he's having a go.

As a fan base we bitch and moan about players not taking anyone on, or playing brave passes, or always passing sideways....and yet when someone does we tear them down when it doesn't always work.
I don't think he does any of those things at all.

I think he's decent off the ball and you can't fault his work rate but he seems to have a strange fan club (not aimed at you and this is mainly on twitter etc) that carry on like he's some classy technical midfielder.
brap2
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UnsyisaRhino wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:14 pm I mean I don't think it's that complicated. We have had, and still have now, lots of players who won't play anything other than the safest pass, usually sideways or backwards. They won't receive the ball on the backfoot, look to turn and progress the ball forward, they won't ask for the ball in anything other than the safest situations, they won't try to play that through ball or make the third man run beyond the striker.

He'll do these things, and although sometimes it doesn't work, at least he's having a go.

As a fan base we bitch and moan about players not taking anyone on, or playing brave passes, or always passing sideways....and yet when someone does we tear them down when it doesn't always work.
I feel the exact opposite to you to be honest, I think he's exactly the kind of player you are talking about.
The Doc
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I like that he'll get involved in whatever part of the pitch you need him. He's got a decent all-round game when he's playing well, compared to most of the midfielders we've had for a long time that are specialists in something but lower league level in other aspects.

He's not playing particularly well at the moment though. Would be nice to see Gueye, Onana, Doucoure back together soon, give him a rest.
Jamokachi
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I think he plays exactly how the manager tells him to play...
UnsyisaRhino
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brap2 wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:48 pm I feel the exact opposite to you to be honest, I think he's exactly the kind of player you are talking about.
Maybe he's the type of player that really divides people, but the stats suggest he's doing more than your description of him would indicate.

I definitely think he's struggled a bit recently, but that's true of everyone other than the two centrebacks and mykolenko.
UnsyisaRhino
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Bluenose91 wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:39 pm I don't think he does any of those things at all.

I think he's decent off the ball and you can't fault his work rate but he seems to have a strange fan club (not aimed at you and this is mainly on twitter etc) that carry on like he's some classy technical midfielder.
You don't think he's even attempting these things? Ever?

I wouldn't call him classy, at best I'd describe him as well-rounded, but the stats alone say he's doing some of those things, and definitely doing more with the ball than any of the other players he's played alongside this season.
Shogun
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I see a player than can run around a lot (but not to the extent that someone like Gana can) but other than that I really struggle to see anything special about him. I slag off Onana constantly but he's someone where the talent is obvious to me, but I don't see it with Garner at all.
brap2
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UnsyisaRhino wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:26 pm Maybe he's the type of player that really divides people, but the stats suggest he's doing more than your description of him would indicate.

I definitely think he's struggled a bit recently, but that's true of everyone other than the two centrebacks and mykolenko.

Live passes that result in a shot - lowest of our CMs
Progressive distance (passing) - 3rd of CMS, Doucoure lower with a higher success %
Progressive passes per 90 - same story here, fewer attempts than Onana and Gueye by a long shot. Fewer than Ashley Young. Fewer than Nathan Patterson.
Passes into final 3rd - behind Onana and Gueye again, but ahead of Doucs who we know is not really a build.up guy (playing as a striker)
Dribbles - 3rd, this time just beating Gueye who has a better success rate
Progressive distance (carries), is he driving with the ball? - last of CMs, worse than Michael Keane
Touches in the middle third, is he getting on the ball? - a million miles behind Gueye and Onana again.
He is playing passes into the penalty area more than the others! But this is likely inflated by set pieces, which is not a bad skill to have.
His defensive numbers will be good.

So he's not really trying anything more than anyone else, infact less in most cases. You are right though it isn't coming off when he does try it.
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