Are older European Cup titles worth all that?

[Shogun]

You see the argument that champions league isn't all that because it's not only 'champions' that compete in it but winning the CL post 92 is a lot more valuable from what I can see.

To pick some random years:

1987 - Porto beat Bayern in the final. Nice. Before that they beat Rabat Ajax, Vitkovice, Brondby and Dynamo Kyiv. Yikes.

1982 - Villa beat Bayern in the final. Very cool. To reach that point they beat Valur, Dynamo Berlin, Dynamo Kyiv and Anderlecht... That route would be mocked now.

1979 - Forest beat Malmo in the final. Malmo. They also beat the shite, AEK Athens, Grasshoppers and Koln.

1975 - Bayern beat Leeds in the final. They got to that point with a Bye and beating Magdeburg, Ararat Yerevan and Saint Etienne.

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Granted there's a bit of not realising how good teams were given how not good they are now but I'm not having that's more impressive or even the same level as modern day wins.

[Gash]

Coincidentally I was just thinking this the other day, it was far easier to win before they changed the format in 92. That's why you'll never see anything like Celtic's win every again, all home grown players winning the European Cup. Even when they extended it to 32 teams, chances are you were coming up against some random teams in the first two or three rounds.

I was looking at Utd's run in 67-68, first three rounds were Hibernians, Sarajevo and Gornik Zabrze before they met Real Madrid in the semi and Benifica in the final. They play more games just to get out of the group stages now than it took to win the whole thing back then, 5 games and you were champions of Europe.

[biziclop]

1987 Dinamo Kyiv were absolute beasts tho.

You also couldn't have analysed your opponents to death and had limited options to change things during the game.

[biziclop]

But I think what looking at these routes to the final doesn't show is how easy it was to slip up. Even if you were good, you could easily crash out in the first round to someone who'd then lose in the next round. Not only was there no margin for error in any round, you'd usually need a certain amount of luck with the draw on top of that.

In the seeded group format you could almost coast your way to the quarter finals.

[Stumpy]

But I think what looking at these routes to the final doesn't show is how easy it was to slip up. Even if you were good, you could easily crash out in the first round to someone who'd then lose in the next round. Not only was there no margin for error in any round, you'd usually need a certain amount of luck with the draw on top of that.

In the seeded group format you could almost coast your way to the quarter finals.

I'm not a 100% sure, but i think it was the 1973-74 season when red star belgrade were drawn against the shite in the european cup.
Red star won the first leg 2-1 in belgrade and the second leg highlights was on sportsnight which i watched without knowing the score.
I thought the shite would probably win 1-0 and go through on away goals.
I was 13 at the time and i watched mesmerised as the shite were torn to shreds by an outstanding team.
The pass and movement of the red star side took my breath away.
They won the second leg 2-1 to progress 4-2 on agg but that 2nd leg could have been anything, they were that dominant.
Although i was only 13 i couldn't see any other team living with them, i thought they were certs to win it.
They didn't even make it past the next round after messing up and getting knocked out.
There was no 2nd chance for them.
No play off, no other games for them to turn it around, they messed up and they were out

[Evertonfc15]

Coincidentally I was just thinking this the other day, it was far easier to win before they changed the format in 92. That's why you'll never see anything like Celtic's win every again, all home grown players winning the European Cup. Even when they extended it to 32 teams, chances are you were coming up against some random teams in the first two or three rounds.

I was looking at Utd's run in 67-68, first three rounds were Hibernians, Sarajevo and Gornik Zabrze before they met Real Madrid in the semi and Benifica in the final. They play more games just to get out of the group stages now than it took to win the whole thing back then, 5 games and you were champions of Europe.

yeah it was 5 teams u had to beat but over 2 legs wasnt it - home and away with away goals counting double maybe
and they were champions of their respective countries - u could get real madrid home and away in the first round
to me that was more exciting and brilliant to watch
loved the old format

[biziclop]

When you think about the qualifying season + tournament season together, you basically still pick 1 winner out of roughly the same number of top-flight clubs, so it should be equally hard.

What did happen though with the format change was a power shift. It's easier to win now if you come from a "big" league, previously the playing field was more level. Yes, we'll never have Crvena Zvezda, Steaua, Celtic or even Ajax winning it but think about how in any given season one of Real Madrid or Barcelona would definitely not even qualify. It feels mad looking back.

But I'd also argue an equally big change came with Bosman, which made it a lot easier to buy success with raw cash.

It's the combination of the two that turned the Champions League into what it is now: with rich teams getting multiple bites of the cherry while poorer teams are lucky to even get one.

[MayorFarnham]

I've always said the "it was only for champions in the old days" is a poor argument as you'd have to follow that by claiming the champoins of Austria were better than the second and third placed team in Spain, England, Italy and so on.

Also in the straight knock out days teams were seeded, some of the first and second round ties were basically byes for the top teams.

The most intresting aspect of the old European Cup was the bent referees.

[blueforyou]

Yeah, one in Greece in 1971 comes to mind

[blueforyou]

Before penalties were introduced in 1970/71 season, we were the first to win with that format, if still not settled under away goals rule, winners were decided by toss of coin!