Manager Merry-Go-Round

[Audrey Horne]

They had the Peterborough owner on Talksport earlier who knows Ivan Toney and his family really well. Said Toney is getting around £100m tax free over his 4 year contract in Saudi.

I think it's crazy to go there from a footballing point of view, but man it'd be hard for anyone to turn down that kind of money.

This thought process is crazy imo.

[AjaxAndy]

This thought process is crazy imo.

Which bit?

[Audrey Horne]

Which bit?

'...but man it'd be hard for anyone to turn down that kind of money.'


Just baffles me really, like they are going from 30k a year to that. They make more money than they will ever have use for anyway.

[Escalator]

With that sort of ridiculous money a person could do a lot of good in helping improve the lives of thousands of people, many of the African stars do so, it would be immoral not to do so.
Whatever you may think about Salah he has built schools, medical facilities , paid for medical treatment and more in his home village in Egypt.

[Shogun]

I'm looking forward to seeing how Toney uses the money to transform Northampton!

[AjaxAndy]

'...but man it'd be hard for anyone to turn down that kind of money.'


Just baffles me really, like they are going from 30k a year to that. They make more money than they will ever have use for anyway.

Sure I get that and I feel the same, but he's already made a lot of money and who knows how much of that he's lost gambling.

Maybe this allows him to never have to worry about what he leaves for his kids and their kids when he dies, maybe it means he never has to work again after footy but otherwise even with what he was on he would have had little left once hanging up his boots.

You just don't know what people's motivations are. Could easily just be as simple as he knows he's coming to the end of his prime year's and doesn't see the point of playing for passion and the love of the game (whilst being paid handsomely), maybe he's achieved everything he wanted and there's nothing left to play for so might as well go where the best paid job is.

My son's only 10 but dreams of being a footballer, we have conversations about Saudi league and LIV golf loads and his view is that he'd never do that, so I think that shows you the values I've instilled in him and hold myself, but I also appreciate people have their own motivations and that many would choose £100m tax free over 4 years as they reach the end of their careers or at least being relevant in their career.

[Bluedylan1]

The vast majority of people can be bought, the world over. It's just the sad reality.

[Shogun]

The vast majority of people can be bought, the world over. It's just the sad reality.

Heck, the offer of a night with Ana De Armas would probably have got you to sacrifice your entirely family at one point in time

[Stumpy]

It does matter how they won the Europa league.

They weren’t even good in that competition. It was such an easy route for them to make the final, it proves nothing of him as a manager winning that trophy.

At last the voice of reason.
I can't believe the the love in for this bloke.
Sure they won a trophy, but come on the standard of it was nothing to write home about.
They didn't pull up any trees,just plodded on beating mediocrity.
They are in the champions league next season by default.
They would have been looking to qualify for that at the start of the season through finishing in the top five.
The fact of the matter is they finished one place above the relegation zone that was filled by the dross that came up from the championship, losing 22 games in the process.
There's no excuse for that, not even winning a sub standard trophy.
He got what he deserved

[777Kidnappings]

The very bottom line is he made a very decent spurs side consistently shit. It's not about 17th or winning the europa league. It's about what happens going fowards and at this point I don't know how anyone can have much faith in that he's a manager that can consistently win games

[Cods]

What do you reckon @Cods?

I had written a few paragraphs, but then I've just now stumbled upon this article by Matt Law that perfectly and completely summed up what I was trying to get down... definitely worth a read, one that we should be able to relate to, in one sense.

Inside story as Daniel Levy places noose around another manager’s neck.

Matt Law

Ange Postecoglou won back the fans with Europa League trophy but at Tottenham just one man’s opinion matters.

It was little more than three months after being persuaded to appoint Ange Postecoglou that Tottenham Hotspur chairman Daniel Levy triumphantly told a fans’ forum “we’ve got our Tottenham back”.

That was in September 2023, when Levy was riding on the coat-tails of Postecoglou’s brilliant start to life at Spurs – during which the team went unbeaten in his first 11 matches as head coach.

But Postecoglou’s aim was not to deliver Levy’s Tottenham back to supporters. He wanted to change the club, the narrative around it and give the fans something to be truly proud of.
In that regard, he was successful, as the club Postecoglou leaves behind after his sacking could not be further removed from Levy’s Tottenham, thanks to a Europa League trophy success that rendered the ‘Spursy’ tag meaningless.
But asking the Premier League’s longest-serving chairman to fully invest in him and trust him to build on that victory in Bilbao proved to be an impossible dream. Levy simply will not allow Tottenham to become anything other than his.

At least Postecoglou has left with his head held high and knowing that he did it his way. For all the obstacles, ridicule and pressure he faced, Postecoglou stuck to his guns and delivered the ultimate mic drop by realising the promise that he would win a trophy in his second season.
At the Europa League trophy parade, he went on to tell delirious Tottenham fans that the third series of a TV show is always better than the second. But his part in the Spurs drama has now been cut.
It was an ambition to shoot for the stars that took Postecoglou all the way from Australia to Tottenham on one of football’s great odysseys. It was that sense of higher purpose that, ultimately, meant it did not last.
Levy was taken out of his comfort zone by Postecoglou, who revealed that his plan to prioritise the Europa League after the winter transfer window closed did not meet with wholesale approval from within the club.
Postecoglou’s all-or-nothing gamble ultimately paid off, but Levy simply could not ignore a 17th-placed finish in the Premier League table and a record-breaking 22 defeats.

The critics will argue that Postecoglou’s football utopia can simply not co-exist with the reality of trying to challenge in the Premier League and Europe, and that the balancing act would have only got harder in the Champions League next season.
But the fact he did not relent to internal pressure will act as significant consolation both to Postecoglou and those who hope there remains a place in football for coaches who are prepared to challenge conventional wisdom, among all the pragmatists, clones and wannabes.
Postecoglou will recognise he made mistakes, none bigger than cupping his ear at the travelling Spurs supporters at Stamford Bridge. But Levy’s Tottenham – the one he simply cannot let go of – has a habit of driving a wedge between the head coach and the club’s fans.
Postecoglou appeared to recognise that and he managed to wrestle public opinion back in his favour. In his final months, instead of picking fights with frustrated fans, he started throwing punches at those he accused of seeking to diminish Tottenham.
Only he will know whether his messaging was intended for some of those inside the club, as well as pundits and media on the outside.
He revealed that he had been working to uncover a leak within Tottenham, laying bare the fact that he believed not everybody on the inside was fighting his corner. Specific language was used in meetings around injuries that made its way out into the public domain. Only when he called the leaks out did they dry up and it is said that Postecoglou knew the identity of the unnamed suspect.

A siege mentality was created and it worked in harnessing the fans, even those who had been calling for his head, and the squad for a final push that carried them all the way in the Europa League. But it was too late to change the course of his own future.
Supporters will now be worried that Levy really is about to get his Tottenham back, with Postecoglou the latest man to fall on his sword in a cycle that repeats itself with maddening regularity.
Postecoglou announced on the eve of Tottenham’s Europa League semi-final second-leg victory over Bodo/Glimt that “Spurs sends people crazy” and all of his predecessors in the Levy era would no doubt nod in agreement.
That is not to say Postecoglou should be excused for a dismal season of under-achievement in the Premier League, but there were mitigating circumstances – not least an unrelenting injury list and transfer failings.
It took Tottenham until the final days of the winter transfer window to sign an outfield player amid an injury crisis that had become close to unmanageable, but Postecoglou did not attempt to publicly steer blame towards Levy or Johan Lange, the sporting director.
Lange is said to be a deep thinker with a talent for identifying potential and using statistics. The signings of Lucas Bergvall and Archie Gray look like deals that will benefit the club for years to come. But some of those who have worked with the Danish data wizard believe he lacks some dynamism and the gravitas to close big deals quickly.
Perhaps that explains why Levy has never been able to fully cut ties with Fabio Paratici, who has remained an unofficial consultant to the Spurs chairman and a visitor to games, despite resigning from his position as managing director of football almost two years ago following a worldwide ban.
Paratici may yet return in a full-time capacity, which would be further proof that Levy prefers for things to be done his way, rather than left in the hands of somebody such as Postecoglou, who has built a career on being different.

Levy’s legacy has endured like a noose around his coaches’ necks. One international player the club who expressed an interest in signing in January told allies that he had grown to like winning trophies too much to seriously consider joining Spurs, whose last success had come in 2008.
Thanks to Postecoglou, players may look at Tottenham as a different proposition, but he will not benefit from the impact of removing the monkey from the club’s back.
Spurs had shown an interest in Randal Kolo Muani and Marcus Rashford early in the winter window, but the pair subsequently moved to Juventus and Aston Villa respectively.
Postecoglou admitted that by the time the club agreed to the loan terms Manchester United baulked over for Mathys Tel, it was the then 19-year-old Bayern Munich forward or nobody in terms of reinforcements up front.
Postecoglou has since revealed that it was at that moment he decided it was the Europa League or bust, hinting at the fact he did not believe the club had done enough to give him a squad capable of combining their domestic and European commitments over the second half of the campaign.

Internally, there was frustration that it took Levy and Lange until the final days of the winter window to sign an outfield player, just as there was disbelief that Tottenham’s injury problems had worsened, rather than improved, following the appointment of head of performance Adam Brett last summer.
Geoff Scott had been head of medicine and sports science for 20 years, before leaving as part of a department restructure that led to the arrival of Brett, who oversees Tottenham’s sports science, medical, nutrition and psychology across the men’s, women’s and academy teams.
The fact Tottenham plan to have a close look at the medical department for a second successive summer would suggest the change has not yet worked. Some would argue these things take time and ripping up another plan will only send Spurs back to square one.
It was instructive that Cristian Romero thanked Argentina’s physios following his return to fitness, without mentioning Tottenham’s. Postecoglou took matters into his own hands by wrapping Romero and Micky van de Ven in cotton wool, effectively refusing to play them in the league.

It worked in the short term, but Tottenham will need a long-term solution heading into next season that will place even greater demands on their squad.
Contrary to those who accused him of refusing to adapt, Postecoglou did make changes to his approach, best proved in the later rounds of the Europa League when Tottenham eliminated Eintracht Frankfurt and Bodo/Glimt with mature and pragmatic performances away from home.
For long spells of the final, Spurs barely had the ball against Manchester United, but were happy to hold what they had after taking the lead, wasting time and winding up their opponents in the process.
Postecoglou remained popular with his squad, even through the most bruising of times. There were spells when his tactics and adventurous style of play frustrated individuals, who were criticised while trying to adapt. But there was an understanding that he was working towards a higher purpose and the sense of family he created became a key ingredient to ending Tottenham’s trophy drought.

For some time, it appeared that Postecoglou’s Tottenham reign may effectively be book-ended by two games against Chelsea. The first, at home in November 2023, marked his first defeat but was a startling demonstration of his determination to stand by his philosophy as Spurs defended with nine men on the halfway line.
But by the time Tottenham lost at Stamford Bridge in April, confidence in “Ange-ball” had eroded and the relationship between Postecoglou and the fans hit its lowest point after he cupped an ear at the supporters who had chanted “you don’t know what you’re doing” at him.
Some feared there was no way back from that, no matter how well the team recovered in Europe. Postecoglou won over the fans again, but it is now clear that Levy remained unconvinced.

Having parted ways with Postecoglou, Levy is faced with his next big decision. He has tried the gambler, the winners, the former players, the stop-gaps, the foreign imports and the best of British. So what next? Thomas Frank, Marco Silva and Andoni Iraola are among the leading candidates, while fans still dream of Mauricio Pochettino making a romantic return.
Levy told the fans’ forum that it had been a “mistake” to appoint “trophy managers” in Antonio Conte and Jose Mourinho. The pair would probably counter that the biggest mistake they made in their careers was agreeing to work for him. Postecoglou pointed out that he too has been a “trophy manager” his entire career, which he underlined in spectacular fashion.
Jacques Santini, Martin Jol, Harry Redknapp, Andre Villas-Boas, Pochettino, Mourinho, Nuno Espírito Santo and Conte all won trophies before or after managing Tottenham, but Postecoglou is the only man since Juande Ramos who added to his collection at Spurs.
Remarkably, Levy pointed the finger at players and fans for appointing Mourinho and Conte by saying: “The frustration from not winning and the pressure from maybe some players and a large element of the fan base that we need to win, we need to spend money, we need to have a big manager, a big name. And it affected me.”
The pressure this time was on Levy to be brave and back Postecoglou. He could not bring himself to do it and supporters must hope he is not about to get his Tottenham – the one that dodges trophies instead of lifting them – back.

[Shogun]

The last line is interesting, and imo a bit dramatic.

"The pressure this time was on Levy to be brave and back Postecoglou. He could not bring himself to do it and supporters must hope he is not about to get his Tottenham – the one that dodges trophies instead of lifting them – back."

The pressure was on him to sack Postecoglou in the last 6 months and he continued to back him, and it worked out in the end. If 'his Tottenham' was about dodging trophies then that doesn't really track. I'm sure Matt Law would have written an article about how Levy should have sacked the fella if in 5 months time Spurs are sitting 16th in the league.

A trophy is all well and good but Man United have about 5 of them in the last decade and they're seen as a mess and joke of a club. If you're supposed to be one of the 'elite' clubs then you can't afford to have a manager that has a squad capable of the top 4/5 and has them 17th in the league. That's the crux of it.

Yes there's been injuries and yes there's been more focus on the Europa League, but you can't put in the worst league performance from a Spurs manager in living memory and expect to keep your job. The club is too big for that and has too much to lose in the bigger scheme of things if it happened again next season but without a trophy.

[TheRam]

Don’t know why levy gets so much stick.

People talk about Tottenham like they should be at the top of the table challenging for the league.

Floating in the top eight winning a trophy every 15 years is about right for them.

It’s not like they were successful before him.

[Cods]

The pressure was on him to sack Postecoglou in the last 6 months and he continued to back him, and it worked out in the end. If 'his Tottenham' was about dodging trophies then that doesn't really track. I'm sure Matt Law would have written an article about how Levy should have sacked the fella if in 5 months time Spurs are sitting 16th in the league.

A trophy is all well and good but Man United have about 5 of them in the last decade and they're seen as a mess and joke of a club. If you're supposed to be one of the 'elite' clubs then you can't afford to have a manager that has a squad capable of the top 4/5 and has them 17th in the league. That's the crux of it.

Yes there's been injuries and yes there's been more focus on the Europa League, but you can't put in the worst league performance from a Spurs manager in living memory and expect to keep your job. The club is too big for that and has too much to lose in the bigger scheme of things if it happened again next season but without a trophy.

I guess the point here is Levy had nothing to lose by continuing on until the end of the season, and at least potentially something big to gain, which ended up being gained.

There wasn't any real pressure, Levy wasn't losing any more fans than he has at times, and we know what he thinks of them anyway, and he's not wrong as they're more wishy washy than most.

He didn't back Postecoglou when needed in winter when they had barely enough to players to field a team, and wanted to further risk players that weren't right. That's when things started to change internally and Postecoglou's targets differed from Levy’s.

We saw the same with Arsenal starting with Arteta and completely bottoming out 21/22, no Europe for the first time in 25(?) years and sitting in 20th, until the turnaround. They held focus and now they're very close.

And it can take a few seasons, no manager gets it right straight from the off. They have to have time to rip up the old manuscript before laying down and cementing their own plans. Unfortunately (luckily perhaps) we won't get to see the result.

To me the underlying problem is one of control and dominance, and we know Levy is no shrinking violet, his way or the highway.

It's a short-termist viewpoint that the league form was such a focus, there was nothing to be lost between finishing 7th or 17th. A few million that is completely ignored by entering the champions league.

Owners that expect immediate change, success on all fronts, unaware of WIP, and never considering variables beyond their control, are deluded.

[TheRam]

Aren’t the injuries his fault though?

Poor training methods coupled with an ultra high intense way of playing.

When you get so many injuries you have to ask questions of the manager.

He was just found out. He was very fortunate to be in a competition that was designed for the better teams to win.