David Moyes

[sam of the south]

Exciting

[Shogun]

I suppose I don't actually think we'll be in a relegation battle because I don't think the 3 teams coming up are particularly strong but I'm struggling to see us being any higher than 13-17th and think we'll probably be there most of the season.

I think Moyes is a good manager but I think @kramer has mentioned it several times that it takes injuries and suspensions for him to find a team that works and we've seen with his use of players last season and even in his response to whether he can see why fans are frustrated that the stubbornness is so ingrained and he's so inflexible that's it's just difficult to see how even with a great window on paper we're finishing in Europe and/or playing decent football next season.

[Trowel]

Not much surprise in playing style given what we've endured in the second half of the season in particular. However we have to be careful not to correlate charts like that with success though - it's missing huge amounts of context. Just look at the position of some of the other clubs - the bottom right quadrant is heavy with clubs who struggled this season, suggesting no reward for a lot of huff and puff defensively and maybe too much panic in attack, yet Lens are in a group with Wolfsburg and Nantes (only just above the average) out of possession line and they finished 2nd in Ligue 1.

[Cods]

Does sprinting correlate with success or is just an indication of playing style and squad composition.

That, and how do they determine when the likes of McNeil, Mykolenko, Grealish and Barry are actually sprinting?

[Cods]

Firstly, *Disclaimer*: This is not an argument to say we've played better than perceived, as on performances alone we've been average and dour bar a few flashes of individual brilliance.

And I understand this is a murky area (ifs buts and maybes)...

But just for argument's sake - assuming VAR hadn't made some pretty obvious and since-apologised-for mistakes* regarding penalties, it's not too difficult to argue that Everton could have secured 4 or 5 additional points against Arsenal, West Ham and City. That would have placed us on 54pts, and in 7th.

Now let's remember the very questionable decisions against Tarkowski (hand ball penalty) Dewsbury Hall (another) early in the season, both of which were more severe than others we saw that were not given (Mbuemo's instantly comes to mind in the attacking sense, but for real similarity the following week against Burnley with Jaiden Anthony - see KDH) so then perhaps even another +1pt vs Leeds instead of a loss, and +2 vs Burnley for a win. = 57pts.

Swings and roundabouts to some extent as we apparently got away with one against Wolves, and had some luck in other games with close outcomes, but it's possible, in an alternate universe, that we're just behind *that lot* in the final Champions League spot, simply based on a 'referee consistency' argument.

Now there's been a lot of chat regarding poor performance towards the end of the season which is valid, but I wonder what the story would be had the referees done their job properly.

Had we been sitting in a European spot with a large gap with only a handful of games to go, how would that have altered the performances from us (with the runs on the board), and our rivals, for the European spots?

I reckon the narrative would be quite different even with a few of those results turned. Thems the fine margins in football.

*Spot that disclaimer at the top? Just a wee reminder, great.*

* https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/arti ... gzl2gmvrzo

[StirlingBlue]

Firstly, *Disclaimer*: This is not an argument to say we've played better than perceived, as on performances alone we've been average and dour bar a few flashes of individual brilliance.

And I understand this is a murky area (ifs buts and maybes)...

But just for argument's sake - assuming VAR hadn't made some pretty obvious and since-apologised-for mistakes* regarding penalties, it's not too difficult to argue that Everton could have secured 4 or 5 additional points against Arsenal, West Ham and City. That would have placed us on 54pts, and in 7th.

Now let's remember the very questionable decisions against Tarkowski (hand ball penalty) Dewsbury Hall (another) early in the season, both of which were more severe than others we saw that were not given (Mbuemo's instantly comes to mind in the attacking sense, but for real similarity the following week against Burnley with Jaiden Anthony - see KDH) so then perhaps even another +1pt vs Leeds instead of a loss, and +2 vs Burnley for a win. = 57pts.

Swings and roundabouts to some extent as we apparently got away with one against Wolves, and had some luck in other games with close outcomes, but it's possible, in an alternate universe, that we're just behind *that lot* in the final Champions League spot, simply based on a 'referee consistency' argument.

Now there's been a lot of chat regarding poor performance towards the end of the season which is valid, but I wonder what the story would be had the referees done their job properly.

Had we been sitting in a European spot with a large gap with only a handful of games to go, how would that have altered the performances from us (with the runs on the board), and our rivals, for the European spots?

I reckon the narrative would be quite different even with a few of those results turned. Thems the fine margins in football.

*Spot that disclaimer at the top? Just a wee reminder, great.*

* https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/arti ... gzl2gmvrzo

I feel like you’re completely ignoring the decisions that went in our favour here - there were definitely occasions where we got away with stuff or a controversial decisions went in our favour

[brap2]

Or a goalie pulling miracles out of his hoop for like 6 weeks straight

[sam of the south]

Or a goalie pulling miracles out of his hoop for like 6 weeks straight

Covers up a multitude of sins does Pickford, as did Grealish and to some extent KDH

[Kerryblueboy]

I know some guys love moyes I have massive respect for the guy and would love him to move upstairs in some capacity but we have to move on from him at some point now would be ideal but he ain’t going anywhere I would hate to see him booed and sacked out of the club which I think is inevitable because he isn’t evolving and believes his methods are correct

[superpull]

Or a goalie pulling miracles out of his hoop for like 6 weeks straight

Looking at the last 5 years, i think there's an argument to be had that he has been the most important player in our history.

I started writing that and intended it to be a joke. But the more i think of it, the more it might be true

[Raptor]

I know some guys love moyes I have massive respect for the guy and would love him to move upstairs in some capacity but we have to move on from him at some point now would be ideal but he ain’t going anywhere I would hate to see him booed and sacked out of the club which I think is inevitable because he isn’t evolving and believes his methods are correct

Why would you want him to 'move upstairs' and what capacity do you see that being, and what you think his credentials are for doing the role you think would be suited too.

[Kerryblueboy]

Why would you want him to 'move upstairs' and what capacity do you see that being, and what you think his credentials are for doing the role you think would be suited too.

I think he would make a good director of football or something to do with recruitment because overall his transfer record with us is positive

[Audrey Horne]

I think he would make a good director of football or something to do with recruitment because overall his transfer record with us is positive

Not sure I want him anywhere near recruitment.

Can't we just let him go and enjoy retirement and hope the club moves on from being a loser sentimental shithouse club??

[AjaxAndy]

Ranieri was moved upstairs at Roma as a 'senior advisor' so TFG do have form for doing this kind of thing.

I doubt Moyes would ever accept a role like that though, he'll keep managing until he's too old to do so imo

[Bumble]

He’ll end up back at Preston one day, when he can no longer get a Premier League job. Which will he when we let him go.

Or he’ll become the new Allardyce, on speed dial by desperate chairman when their club looks like dropping out the league.