Adam Aznou

[sam of the south]

Imagine how much we would have won if he put his trust in them sooner.....

Yeah but as Captain Scarlet said, you can't win anything with kids

[Granite]

The lad had broken into the Morocco squad before he joined us. Fair assumption he’d be going to the World Cup if he’d had game time this season. If I was him I’d be livid with the club and Moyes.

Moyes isn’t suddenly going to start playing him next season so we might as well just move him on. Sure he’d welcome the move.

[Cods]

Imagine how much we would have won if he put his trust in them sooner.....

Coleman and Ossie weren't ready, they were kids and pretty lightweight too, and Moyes didn't like that Baines kept getting beaten with headers and allowing crosses.

Irvine actually convinced Moyes to sign him, and with a lot of tactical instruction and defensive advice, biding his time as Centre Backs took his place (sound familiar?), he turned into the best player (IMO) that we've had in 20 years.

All Im saying is let's not write anyone off just yet, or assume we know the mind of Moyes. If Aznou or Dibling turn out to be half the player Baines was in his prime...

[Audrey Horne]

Coleman and Ossie weren't ready, they were kids and pretty lightweight too, and Moyes didn't like that Baines kept getting beaten with headers and allowing crosses.

Irvine actually convinced Moyes to sign him, and with a lot of tactical instruction and defensive advice, biding his time as Centre Backs took his place (sound familiar?), he turned into the best player (IMO) that we've had in 20 years.

All Im saying is let's not write anyone off just yet, or assume we know the mind of Moyes. If Aznou or Dibling turn out to be half the player Baines was in his prime...

I mean im not writing anyone off except Moyes but get your point...

[brap2]

Yeah I’m sure he’ll be moving on asap if possible, from his pov and Moyes’.

Think it might end up being a misstep tbh

[AjaxAndy]

Coleman and Ossie weren't ready, they were kids and pretty lightweight too, and Moyes didn't like that Baines kept getting beaten with headers and allowing crosses.

Irvine actually convinced Moyes to sign him, and with a lot of tactical instruction and defensive advice, biding his time as Centre Backs took his place (sound familiar?), he turned into the best player (IMO) that we've had in 20 years.

All Im saying is let's not write anyone off just yet, or assume we know the mind of Moyes. If Aznou or Dibling turn out to be half the player Baines was in his prime...

It's a weird one as probably everyone on this forum remembers Moyes doing this with young players in his first spell in charge, yet no one is willing to believe it'll have the same effect this time round

I've no idea either way tbh, but one comparison really comes to mind for me when looking at Dibling - Ross Barkley.

Barkley was widely heralded as being the next big thing to come through our academy, and Moyes just didn't want to use him. I remember reading at the time his dedication during training was massively lacking which meant Moyes wouldn't give him a chance.

Bobby brown shoes came in and immediately played him and I think Barkley got 20 goal involvements that season.

So it looked like Moyes was just being stubborn and a bad man manager.

However as Barkley's career unfolded it just completely detailed and his promise was never lived up to. You have to wonder if Moyes had stuck around longer would Barkley have ended up with a far better career? Quite possibly.

I'm not a fan of Moyes' stubborness, authoritarianism, or how he gives a played a rare 5 minutes cameo and expects them to prove they should get more game time during it. For all the negatives though there's definitely an argument for how he demands a certain level on and off the pitch of a young player before they're given regular game time.

[kramer]

It's a weird one as probably everyone on this forum remembers Moyes doing this with young players in his first spell in charge, yet no one is willing to believe it'll have the same effect this time round

I've no idea either way tbh, but one comparison really comes to mind for me when looking at Dibling - Ross Barkley.

Barkley was widely heralded as being the next big thing to come through our academy, and Moyes just didn't want to use him. I remember reading at the time his dedication during training was massively lacking which meant Moyes wouldn't give him a chance.

Bobby brown shoes came in and immediately played him and I think Barkley got 20 goal involvements that season.

So it looked like Moyes was just being stubborn and a bad man manager.

However as Barkley's career unfolded it just completely detailed and his promise was never lived up to. You have to wonder if Moyes had stuck around longer would Barkley have ended up with a far better career? Quite possibly.

I'm not a fan of Moyes' stubborness, authoritarianism, or how he gives a played a rare 5 minutes cameo and expects them to prove they should get more game time during it. For all the negatives though there's definitely an argument for how he demands a certain level on and off the pitch of a young player before they're given regular game time.

I tend towards the “he doesn’t get enough out of young players” side of things because there are so many situations that demand players with certain abilities and Moyes will leave youngsters who have them on the bench for his one of his trusted lieutenants for 60 or 70 minutes even when the need is glaring.

At the same time, when the player puts the work in and starts doing what they need to in training to get on the pitch, you can’t argue with the results. Baines, Coleman, Osman, even Rice at West Ham all had or are having good, long careers and that has to be largely down to habits off the pitch. Whether those players had the habits already or Moyes forced them develop them is a fair question.

I still think he’s the wrong manager for this group at this moment in time but I think it’s fair enough to give him one more chance to prove he can get something more out of them before we move on, especially since it lines up with his contract.

[Kerryblueboy]

It’s really a trust thing younger coaches tend to be more inclined to try things moyes is massively conservative and looks at the worst case scenario rather than trying out something different

[brap2]

Have I just seen someone say maybe Barkley would have done better with a manager who refused to play him whatsoever despite him being the biggest talent out of our academy since Rooney?

Yeah maybe man, who knows.

Has he got any actual success stories with young talents Moyes? Genuine Q.

Rodwell? Coleman maybe not really a talent like.

[MmmBlueBranthwaite]

Have I just seen someone say maybe Barkley would have done better with a manager who refused to play him whatsoever despite him being the biggest talent out of our academy since Rooney?

Yeah maybe man, who knows.

Has he got any actual success stories with young talents Moyes? Genuine Q.

Rodwell? Coleman maybe not really a talent like.

Declan Rice?

[AjaxAndy]

Have I just seen someone say maybe Barkley would have done better with a manager who refused to play him whatsoever despite him being the biggest talent out of our academy since Rooney?

Yeah maybe man, who knows.

Has he got any actual success stories with young talents Moyes? Genuine Q.

Rodwell? Coleman maybe not really a talent like.

Well did Barkley's career pan out as expected at the time given the biggest talent since Rooney tag?

Or did it absolutely tank after initial promise because he'd had Martinez pandering to his lack of effort in training and calling him Gazza levels of talent before he'd even achieved anything?

I think it's a fair argument to say there's a possibility that Moyes having him for a few more years may well have seen Barkley have a better career than he did, and little to suggest it could have gone much worse.

[brap2]

Well did Barkley's career pan out as expected at the time given the biggest talent since Rooney tag?

Or did it absolutely tank after initial promise because he'd had Martinez pandering to his lack of effort in training and calling him Gazza levels of talent before he'd even achieved anything?

I think it's a fair argument to say there's a possibility that Moyes having him for a few more years may well have seen Barkley have a better career than he did, and little to suggest it could have gone much worse.

Surely the best years of his career were under Martinez and went off the rails post Martinez?

Either way your point is impossible to argue, what is it even based on?

[AjaxAndy]

Surely the best years of his career were under Martinez and went off the rails post Martinez?

Either way your point is impossible to argue, what is it even based on?

But then it massively derailed and he had a pretty shite career overall. So if he'd had Moyes as manager for longer maybe he'd have had the longevity the likes of Arteta, Baines etc had.

Yes impossible to argue either way, my point very much relates to Dibling and how maybe he'll benefit long term from the Moyes treatment.

[brap2]

But then it massively derailed and he had a pretty shite career overall. So if he'd had Moyes as manager for longer maybe he'd have had the longevity the likes of Arteta, Baines etc had.

Yes impossible to argue either way, my point very much relates to Dibling and how maybe he'll benefit long term from the Moyes treatment.

What if he’d had count chocula as his manager?

[Escalator]

What if he’d had count chocula as his manager?

One person puts forward his case/opinion with a reasonably/plausible argument, the other can only respond in a juvenile fashion referring to a children’s breakfast cereal, great thread lads !