Beto

[Cozzie]

Not sure it would be overly wise to sell beto when barry is worse.

Barry has years to develop and get better though.

Catch 22. They both have flaws.

Think we need improvement on both in fairness.

[Matt1878]

He’s always averaged around a goal every 180 minutes here which is a great record to have.

If he played every minute of every game he’d be getting close to 20 a season.

It’s just a shame that he’s never developed his hold up play.

I love him, hes such a likable character but think we need to sell in the summer.

Beto aside, as there will be better out there, if you look at a striker like Braiden Graham, if he becomes what we hope, that lad will thrive on through balls, he reminds me of Owen (unfortunately). But his hold up play, unless he shoots up, might not be the best. So do we always need a big lone striker who others can play off up top, or should we consider a more mobile, channel runner who thrives off through balls, with great movement? I'd love to see that sort of attacker up top, although I just can't see it in a Moyes starting XI unfortunately.

[TheRam]

Not sure it would be overly wise to sell beto when barry is worse.

Barry is a lot younger with a lot of room to develop.

I personally think Barry is already streets ahead of beto as a footballer so you keep your potential over the player who has already hit his ceiling and showed over three years they can’t be developed as we hoped.

[Matt1878]

Barry is a lot younger with a lot of room to develop.

I personally think Barry is already streets ahead of beto as a footballer so you keep your potential over the player who has already hit his ceiling and showed over three years they can’t be developed as we hoped.

Should consider offers for both really, see whats on the table.

[Bumble]

Neither are good enough but Beto should lead the line for the rest of the season.

Make both available for transfer in the summer and see what interest we get.

[Bluedylan1]

Neither are good enough but Beto should lead the line for the rest of the season.

Make both available for transfer in the summer and see what interest we get.

Nah, keep Barry. He's developed well as the season has gone on, and he'll be more effective next season playing with better players, if we can create more chances. His conversion rate has been good. We haven't created much for him generally.

[AjaxAndy]

If Beto could play like that every week we'd not need to look for a new striker, but despite how well he performed we all know it's not a true reflection of his levels.

He'll have the odd purple patch but it's so unpredictable that you can't rely on him either as a starter or a rotation / off the bench option.

Barry has plenty to work with and should be the one retained and given game time as the backup to a reliable striker.

As someone else said, let's hope Beto can perform well over the remaining games as it helps us achieve our ambitions and enables us to move him on in the summer for a reasonable fee.

[Toddacelli]

Buy a main striker.
Give Barry development minutes.
Keep Beto as an option from the bench.

If we’re gonna be competitive we need 3 strikers.

[Matt1878]

Barry needs to get on the weights this summer. Put 20 pounds on him and he will be a different proposition.

[The Doc]

Tell you what, some finish for his first goal from Beto the lad.

Barry though, not sure on the stats but hes been particularly disappointing in the air I feel. I know there was that one game where he won't everything but it hasn't been consistent, and hes not a aerial goal threat.

[Cods]

If we just pass him the ball in the games where we sit back, absorb, then break, I see no problem with him, he's likely scoring 15-20.

He has uncanny acceleration, gets his wide gate burning up pitch metres, can muscle off nearby defenders. Scares the absolute Crap out of defences he runs at. Let's just use him effectively, more frequently.

I get that we're trying to play more football, but we can mix it up and score more. Grealish, KDH, Garner etc can release him, and the latter can run with, and support.

[AjaxAndy]

I see we're back to the 'Beto would score 15-20 a season' shouts... He wouldn't, we've surely seen enough to know he has the odd purple patch but the reality is that's not his level or even close to it.

Hardly any strikers score 15-20 a season in the premier league, Beto's a million miles away from being one of them

[Cods]

I see we're back to the 'Beto would score 15-20 a season' shouts... He wouldn't, we've surely seen enough to know he has the odd purple patch but the reality is that's not his level or even close to it.

Hardly any strikers score 15-20 a season in the premier league, Beto's a million miles away from being one of them

I don't agree.

The issue is because of how we play.

We still use him like we used DCL when he's not that type of striker, at all (except is a decent headed-goal-from-a-cross chance)...

So I guess the choice is we can play to his strengths or continue to use him incorrectly as a back to goal outlet striker until we find someone else. Needs must to some extent, I understand.

The 'style' we had feeding it to Jack who is dangerous near goal also helps creates goals for us, but we can't use Beto's attributes in that situation with slow build up play whilst we wheel our heavy artillery, cavalry and flack cannon (I'm looking at you, Idrissa) into the danger area stationed in and around the box.

His attributes are the complete flip of this. He actually does quite well when he's moving into space, fast and strong if a bit clumsy at times. He actually finishes relatively well in those situations as that was his bread and butter in Italy. He's raw power rather than finesse.

It's just that he's not well-rounded and can't do many roles like say Thiago at Brentford for example, and has bad touch... this overly highlights his less-than-pretty football deficiencies.

If he's static or back to goal, he's lost. If it's played in front of him he has a good chance of scoring or at the very least giving us chances and corners...

With better and more creative passing (and passers) and a team that can control the ball, press and release at the right times, which we haven't been for years but are moving in that direction, he can do it.

Our old striker who couldn't (and still can't) hit a barn door is on his way towards 12-15 as the relegation threatened team he joined actually play to his strengths.

Beto is almost a 1 in 2 striker this season (1 in 2.25)
38 games = 17 goals.

He has been at that rate in every season in his career where he's played at least a dozen games. He is actually very consistent season to season.

15-20 is certainly achievable even if we persist using him incorrectly. Whether that yields +/- overall goals for the team is another question entirely.

[AjaxAndy]

I don't agree.

The issue is because of how we play.

We still use him like we used DCL when he's not that type of striker, at all (except is a decent headed-goal-from-a-cross chance)...

So I guess the choice is we can play to his strengths or continue to use him incorrectly as a back to goal outlet striker until we find someone else. Needs must to some extent, I understand.

The 'style' we had feeding it to Jack who is dangerous near goal also helps creates goals for us, but we can't use Beto's attributes in that situation with slow build up play whilst we wheel our heavy artillery, cavalry and flack cannon (I'm looking at you, Idrissa) into the danger area stationed in and around the box.

His attributes are the complete flip of this. He actually does quite well when he's moving into space, fast and strong if a bit clumsy at times. He actually finishes relatively well in those situations as that was his bread and butter in Italy. He's raw power rather than finesse.

It's just that he's not well-rounded and can't do many roles like say Thiago at Brentford for example, and has bad touch... this overly highlights his less-than-pretty football deficiencies.

If he's static or back to goal, he's lost. If it's played in front of him he has a good chance of scoring or at the very least giving us chances and corners...

With better and more creative passing (and passers) and a team that can control the ball, press and release at the right times, which we haven't been for years but are moving in that direction, he can do it.

Our old striker who couldn't (and still can't) hit a barn door is on his way towards 12-15 as the relegation threatened team he joined actually play to his strengths.

Beto is almost a 1 in 2 striker this season (1 in 2.25)
38 games = 17 goals.

He has been at that rate in every season in his career where he's played at least a dozen games. He is actually very consistent season to season.

15-20 is certainly achievable even if we persist using him incorrectly. Whether that yields +/- overall goals for the team is another question entirely.

I get what you're saying, but the problem is that even when you play to his strengths he's completely shit most of the time. Never let his purple patches fool you in to thinking it's an us problem not a him problem.

He's scored 10 & 11 in Seria A seasons, and 11 in Portugal's top division... He never has hit 15 at a top level anywhere, it doesn't matter how you play, he isn't and never will be a 15+ goal a season striker.

Obviously how we play affects how he performs because of his very limited skill set, I agree with that, but it also makes little difference overall to his ability to regularly put the ball in the net.

[Cods]

I get what you're saying, but the problem is that even when you play to his strengths he's completely shit most of the time. Never let his purple patches fool you in to thinking it's an us problem not a him problem.

He's scored 10 & 11 in Seria A seasons, and 11 in Portugal's top division... He never has hit 15 at a top level anywhere, it doesn't matter how you play, he isn't and never will be a 15+ goal a season striker.

Obviously how we play affects how he performs because of his very limited skill set, I agree with that, but it also makes little difference overall to his ability to regularly put the ball in the net.

But putting it in the onion bag is still putting it in the onion bag... purple patch vs exactly one goal every second game.

I know and understand your feelings on him. I'm not a fan either, just that I think the opinion needle has swayed too far into the negative direction.

He'd score 17 goals this season at current rate assuming playing 38 games, which, playing the way we play isn't too bad, especially given the stop and (no) starts season he's had...

As he's never played more than 25x 90s in a season in his career, and averages fewer than 17x 90s per season over his career, hitting 15 goals from so few games a season he'd need to be a goal per game striker,...a very tough ask.

Of those players that have hit 15+ in a season over the last decade, less than 10% of them have done it in fewer than 34x 90s (that is, almost all of them have played *more than double* the game time Beto averages per season). That's why pro rata is the only way we can view it objectively.

If you take out the Rom seasons, our top scorer has hit 15 or more goals only 6 times in 46 seasons (since 1979/80), so in comparison he's not doing too bad at all.

Despite all this I don't think Moyes is particularly fond of either him or Barry, so I expect a finisher to arrive at the club in the near future.