Iliman Ndiaye

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Toddacelli
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I kinda know what you mean. It feels like his job sometimes is to carry us 50 yards up the pitch before losing it, just so we can push the team up the pitch. But there’s no end product and we give away possession so it’s only going to come straight back at us.

It does feel like that sometimes.

But there are tangible, measurable outputs from him as well. This is why he’s more than just a yard-stealer.
Free Agent
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The alternative for us is to have Tarks hit a diagonal to the lone striker in hope that its gets a favourable bounce and the ball stays upfield or falls out of touch, OR to have someone like Gana or Doucs carry it 10-20 yards, lose possession and have the opposition back in our faces again. Rinse repeat.
TheRam
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brap2 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:05 pm Listen I get it and I'm not going to like die on this hill, and tbh we won't ever know because the manager is obsessed with playing him, but I have my opinion and I urge you to watch the next few games with this opinion in mind.

Is he helping the side or is he being good in very specific situations. Is he creating chances or is he pretty much doing set pieces stuff in the next phase. Is he helping keep the ball up the pitch or would you rather Ndiaye have the ball there? Is he getting close to Ndiaye or Dom or is he miles away puffing away?

Outside of the odd long shot and whipped cross, I don't think he's helping us in there. I'm sorry but there we are!
He’s creating chances.

All the numbers say so and I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
AjaxAndy
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I was very skeptical about McNeil as a 10, but so far he's been really good imo.

I agree with some of what @brap2 is saying so much as he's not someone who will constantly be on the ball making things happen, but also I disagree that he's not helping us.

Outside of the goals he's scored he also has one or two assists with well weighted through balls, and more importantly he's slipped a ball through the opposition defence two to three times already that DCL hasn't read or has been caught on his heels. I can't really blame DCL as he's not used to that happening so isn't expecting it, but a more alert striker maybe bags one or two more in those positions making McNeil's stats even better.

He's limited because he's so one footed it's hard to dictate a game the way a 10 should, and he was utterly dreadful against Newcastle, however that was because the midfield was soooo deep to protect Tarks and Keane it was always going to be a thankless task.

He's doing fine, he's not your archetypal number 10 but he's an intelligent player who can provide goals and assists from there whilst also having a good engine and is able to press as well as chase back when needed.
4evablu
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I think what certain people are missing is the tactics Dyche employs...sit back and defend.....which leaves massive gaps between midfield and isolated forwards.....hence plenty of turnover ball.....when you've got progressive players like mcneil and ndiaye they're always gonna lose the ball eventually if there's no one to pass to.....or turn back and go backwards....
our number 10 whoever he is has basically 1 man to pass to who has 3/4 defenders around him !!!
WBFBTPL
brap2
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TheRam wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 7:04 am He’s creating chances.

All the numbers say so and I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
And it's one of his skills! But it's not enough I'm afraid. Have a look at where he is in the prem for shots created from open play. He's about 43rd in the prem, adjust for minutes played and he's closer to 100+.

McNeil with 40 touches in front of the box or Ndiaye with 40 touches in front of the box? I know what I'm choosing.
brap2
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AjaxAndy wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:20 am I was very skeptical about McNeil as a 10, but so far he's been really good imo.

I agree with some of what @brap2 is saying so much as he's not someone who will constantly be on the ball making things happen, but also I disagree that he's not helping us.

Outside of the goals he's scored he also has one or two assists with well weighted through balls, and more importantly he's slipped a ball through the opposition defence two to three times already that DCL hasn't read or has been caught on his heels. I can't really blame DCL as he's not used to that happening so isn't expecting it, but a more alert striker maybe bags one or two more in those positions making McNeil's stats even better.

He's limited because he's so one footed it's hard to dictate a game the way a 10 should, and he was utterly dreadful against Newcastle, however that was because the midfield was soooo deep to protect Tarks and Keane it was always going to be a thankless task.

He's doing fine, he's not your archetypal number 10 but he's an intelligent player who can provide goals and assists from there whilst also having a good engine and is able to press as well as chase back when needed.
He has found him with a couple of through balls which I think are standing out in people's minds, and fair play to him but we aren't going to see that all year. It's fairly rare we have situations like that.
AjaxAndy
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brap2 wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:55 am He has found him with a couple of through balls which I think are standing out in people's minds, and fair play to him but we aren't going to see that all year. It's fairly rare we have situations like that.
I mean he's managed at least 4 that I remember, but DCL failed to read at least 2.

I think the small sample size says so far there's no reason to believe he can't continue to do that.

My concern is you just have to keep him on his right foot and then you nullify his ability to do anything productive. Think he's done well enough so far though to see how it pans out over a larger sample size.

He also won't lose the ball in dangerous areas which is a big tick in a Dyche system that Ndaiye doesn't bring.
brap2
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AjaxAndy wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 11:10 am I mean he's managed at least 4 that I remember, but DCL failed to read at least 2.

I think the small sample size says so far there's no reason to believe he can't continue to do that.

My concern is you just have to keep him on his right foot and then you nullify his ability to do anything productive. Think he's done well enough so far though to see how it pans out over a larger sample size.

He also won't lose the ball in dangerous areas which is a big tick in a Dyche system that Ndaiye doesn't bring.
Ok, I'm sure we'll see loads more this year I look forward to them.

He's better at keeping the ball than Ndiaye? I do not agree but he is v happy to sacrifice momentum to turn 180 degrees and pass the ball backwards with his left which dyche likes. Get it launched, Dwight will catch up in a bit.
The Doc
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brap2 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:57 pmWhich bit?
The general vibe of the post, but mainly the parts like him not being involved in the build up play and being a Sigurdsson reincarnate.
brap2
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The Doc wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 11:41 am The general vibe of the post, but mainly the parts like him not being involved in the build up play and being a Sigurdsson reincarnate.
Sigurdsson was better.
AjaxAndy
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brap2 wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 11:39 am Ok, I'm sure we'll see loads more this year I look forward to them.

He's better at keeping the ball than Ndiaye? I do not agree but he is v happy to sacrifice momentum to turn 180 degrees and pass the ball backwards with his left which dyche likes. Get it launched, Dwight will catch up in a bit.
They're very different players... Ndaiye might be a total baller when dribbling but he's not the type to be threading through balls or curling one in from 25 yards.

I'd imagine if you looked at possession turnovers this season Ndaiye is far higher than McNeil. That's not a criticism, it's just when you constantly run at people you'll lose the ball more than other players will. That doesn't work for a central player imo.
brap2
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Well when the 30 yarders dry up and he goes back to his usual self we can rely on that ball retention.

Long may they continue and I like him a lot but this isn't how I believe they should be played.
TheRam
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Scored a good goal in the box, has played some very good through balls to the strikers.

But ok, just hits 30 yarders and lumps the ball in the box.
Cods
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On McNeil, I presume we're excluding the fact that through most of his time here he has had tactical instruction that severely negates his creative and attacking scope.

He's effectively been played as left wing back for us, covering two roles, with severly limiting tactical instruction. He's been sacrificed entirely for the benefit of the team. And the time he's been moved forward/ central isn't significant enough to draw conclusion from, yet has been very promising, and again particularly important for the team.
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