Jake O'Brien

[AjaxAndy]

Don’t be a dick o Brien is in his third season here should be center half you were the same with dyche anyone who criticised him was wrong until it eventually ended the way most predicted Moyes is another chip off the same block

Or... and this might shock you to your core... He's not actually good enough to be a starting centre back for a team aiming for the top seven.

Dum dum DUMMMNM!!!

But of course it can't be that, he's the second coming of Maldini, Nesta and Baresi all rolled in to one, it's just for some reason Moyes refuses to see it.

Man, tough one, not sure which might be true

[Bornblue88]

I was a bit shocked by this rumour myself. My theory is that we needed the Tim money to buy a right back but because that’s fallen through, Jake thinks we’re not going to sign a RB and he’ll end up there when Röhl’s form drops. Ideally Moyes would like to sign a RB and work Jake in at CB over the season but there’s no money. Jake wants the move to play regularly at CB and we’re happy to get the money and reinvest in a RB and loan a CB or get a feebie. All parties are happy with the outcome except us because we now now that we’re skint and have to sell to buy and are losing Jake because of it.

So be it if this is the case because it’s a sound plan business wise but just a shame we’re forced into it.

[bigmanbob]

I can see it now.

Moyes walks into the canteen on Finch farm, obviously not happy with something. He scans the room, before finally setting his gaze on the kids table. Plastic plates, sporks, pre-cut grapes, cheese strings and empty cartons of Umbongo are scattered across the table.

"Fingers on ye fuckin' lips!" he spits as he walks over to the table, enraged that rather than doing their defensive duties, they seemed to be 'having fun'. He charges over kicking Jake's tiny plastic chair out from under him. Everyone freezes except for Rohl, who very quietly puts his camera away.
Alan Irvine is stood behind Moyes, studiously taking notes while occasionally checking a stopwatch.

"Put this on and keep yer mouth shut!" Moyes forces the words out through gritted teeth, throwing a cap in Jake's face. The letters 'RB' are crudely etched onto the front with a biro. He glares at them, his eyes bulging, hair miraculously turning ginger again through nothing but the power of Scottish rage. He reaches forward, players flinching away, picking up a pork pie from the table and swallowing it whole, before making eye contact with each of them individually as he forces it down, the ultimate power move.

"You'll get on the pitch when ye've run your 1000 miles and not a minute before!!!" He shouts before pulling out a crumpled picture of Dwight McNeil from his pocket, trying in vain to smooth it out on his leg as a small tear starts to drip down his face. Scribbled at the bottom, in what suspiciously looks like Irn-bru are the words " 10km a game, he averaged 10k!". He gently folds it this time, and places it back in his pocket, eyes returning to the youngsters who have now slowly begun to huddle around the far side of the table.

One last outburst of "DO THE FUCKING MILES!" punctuates a quick spin from Moyes, his hair almost glowing at this point, before he walks directly through the nearby wall, 3 feet from the nearest door, leaving an almost perfect Moyes shaped silhouette. The youngsters watch in stunned silence as Baines and Irvine walk over to a small cupboard, pull out a sheet of plaster board and tack it over the hole. It had obviously been pre-cut.

Tarks and Keane are the first to move, they laugh as they stand, try to high-five but awkwardly half miss, repeating the process twice before giving up and going for an even more awkward half fist bump, half handshake. "Maybe next week Jake!" Tarks says as he heads to the door, kicking a bin in Jakes direction on the way out.

Baines slowly walks over to Jake, offering him a small bowl of tangerine segments as he helps him back into his seat. "I've been there lad".

Jake picks up his phone and dials his agent.

You've missed your calling Unsy, very funny

[AllyBlue14]

Don’t be a dick o Brien is in his third season here should be center half you were the same with dyche anyone who criticised him was wrong until it eventually ended the way most predicted Moyes is another chip off the same block

O'Brien should be centre half... why, though?

When Moyes first replaced Dyche, one of the changes he made was to get JOB in the team at RB, and it was hailed as a masterstroke.

I guess we'll never really know how hard they tried for a RB last summer, but JOB did a decent enough job the season before that it maybe wasn't as screamingly urgent as it might have been (given that we seemed to prioritise investing in midfield and forward positions). Obviously, as the season went on, the need for a specialist RB became more pressing and we are where we are today.

I'd imagine a lot of Michael Keane's appearances last season would've come with JOB at RB, so it's not so much that JOB wasn't fancied at CB, but more a case that he was preferred to Patterson at RB.

As for this new season, I don't know what the preferred pecking order is but Branthwaite is clearly the best CB at the club and Tarkowski is club captain. It's not unreasonable that they should be the first choice pairing. Tarkowski may be on the decline but, as has been mentioned elsewhere, he starts as much for his leadership as anything.

Now Rohl seems to be the first choice RB currently, I can understand why O'Brien would feel frustrated. But unless we were to go 3 at the back or one of Tarkowski/Branthwaite is injured, I don't see a starting role for him.

I'd prefer him to stay - and, probably, as the season goes on, come in for Tarkowski if his performances drop. But if he's impatient (which would be fair enough) and he's not a nailed-on starter, we should cash in and invest the funds elsewhere.

[NomadskiEFC]

Even those defending Moyes on not pairing the two must admit surely it's a little mad we haven't seen the two of them used ONCE together? Just once.

If we are scared that there may be mistakes committed, then why are we even playing Tarks or Keane? They both make mistakes practically every game they are in. Tarks already started the season with one that nearly gifted Palace a goal.

I'm not having it's that big a roll of the dice playing the two together. And noone knows how they would do, not even Moyes, because we've never seen it as a pairing.

I know it's mostly the lack of a right back and JB's injuries that have helped curtail the opportunity, but fuck me we are not inundated with two impeccable centre backs in front of JOB, and when he's played in JB's absence he has always done a decent job IMO and hasn't stuck in the howlers that both Tarks AND Keane have committed on a fairly frequent basis.

They are young, they are strong and seem fairly intelligent on a footy level. But instead we always stick with the cloggers. Everton.

[Nicco]

Unless we have a better, similar costing CB lined up then this is a mistake surely.

Saying David Moyes knows his CB's, does he? Aguerd and Kehrer spring to mind as recent examples. Not great either of them and Aguerd was well expensive.

Mavropanos was a regular starter for the West Ham team that just got relegated.

Hmmm

Shkodran Mustafi.

[AllyBlue14]

I know it's mostly the lack of a right back and JB's injuries that have helped curtail the opportunity...

Think you've answered your own question!

I would understand the argument if it was Keane constantly keeping him out, but I don't think that's been the case.

None of us really wants Jake at RB any more but I don't reckon many managers would drop Tarkowski (or Branthwaite) to make way for him at CB.

[Bumble]

Think you've answered your own question!

I would understand the argument if it was Keane constantly keeping him out, but I don't think that's been the case.

None of us really wants Jake at RB any more but I don't reckon many managers would drop Tarkowski (or Branthwaite) to make way for him at CB.

I beg to differ.

Taking bias and emotionally driven selections to one side (both of which Moyes struggles with) it's not unreasonable to assume other managers would have wanted to see two younger, mobile, tall, athletic centre halves in front of Pickford for a run of games to see how that works out.

if nothing else it serves as an opportunity to see what the future may look like once our two ageing centre halves are scaled out/moved on.

[AllyBlue14]

I beg to differ.

Taking bias and emotionally driven selections to one side (both of which Moyes struggles with) it's not unreasonable to assume other managers would have wanted to see two younger, mobile, tall, athletic centre halves in front of Pickford for a run of games to see how that works out.

if nothing else it serves as an opportunity to see what the future may look like once our two ageing centre halves are scaled out/moved on.

And my point is, it's pie in the sky. O'Brien played much of last season, albeit mainly at RB - having done a decent job there the year before. Branthwaite was injured for much of the season so it's not like the opportunity was constantly overlooked.

We'd all like to see it in practice and the frustration is that we haven't, but there's more to it than JOB just being younger and more mobile.

Many on here would be happy with a team of players largely under 23-25 years old - play Dibling, George, Armstrong and Aznou, buy Guela Doué, etc. It's amazing in principle and, again, it'd be amazing to see. But it's not hard to understand why a manager might err on the side of experience in certain positions, particularly when that player is your captain.

Take out Tarkowski and there's only really Pickford who you'd class as a leader in that team.

[Kerryblueboy]

Or... and this might shock you to your core... He's not actually good enough to be a starting centre back for a team aiming for the top seven.

Dum dum DUMMMNM!!!

But of course it can't be that, he's the second coming of Maldini, Nesta and Baresi all rolled in to one, it's just for some reason Moyes refuses to see it.

Man, tough one, not sure which might be true

How do you know he isn’t good enough to be center back he played there 7 times last season and we didn’t lose I never said he was maldini you condescending prick just he is miles better than tark and Keane

[Bumble]

I do think we need to distinguish this revisionist love-in for Jake O'Brien with a genuine questioning of an apparent change of heart this close to the end of the window.

Not because we necessarily think he is the second coming of Maldini when we don't actually know how good he is at centre half over a longer sample size yet, but because this is emblematic of the past few weeks that have seen a rather disjointed pattern of board/manager/recruitment comms and interviews that indicate all isn't aligned internally.

[UnsyisaRhino]

How do you know he isn’t good enough to be center back he played there 7 times last season and we didn’t lose I never said he was maldini you condescending prick just he is miles better than tark and Keane

Not picking a fight here, but I'm not sure he's miles better than Tarks. Definitely has some strengths but also has his downsides, and areas where he isn't as strong as Tarks and that doesn't include the fluffier hard to measure stuff like leadership, communication, being a bit of a nark.

He needs replacing but acting like dropping Jake in would automatically improve things is a stretch, and I'd love us to keep him as I think he could become that.

[Kerryblueboy]

Not picking a fight here, but I'm not sure he's miles better than Tarks. Definitely has some strengths but also has his downsides, and areas where he isn't as strong as Tarks and that doesn't include the fluffier hard to measure stuff like leadership, communication, being a bit of a nark.

He needs replacing but acting like dropping Jake in would automatically improve things is a stretch, and I'd love us to keep him as I think he could become that.

He has pace which allows us play higher up the pitch with Pickford sweeping behind how many games last season were we camped on our on box inviting opposition pressure tarks pace is gone great reader of the play but slow now

[UnsyisaRhino]

He has pace which allows us play higher up the pitch with Pickford sweeping behind how many games last season were we camped on our on box inviting opposition pressure tarks pace is gone great reader of the play but slow now

Oh yeah that's true, but we've also seen Jake lose physical battles he shouldn't at his size, and Tarks does seem like a good leader on the pitch. Who steps into that role if he's dropped?

As usual with Moyes, I think he see's it as a less risky to stick with Tarks, even with his negatives, than to drop him for Jake and that with Branthwaite fit and playing, he might be right, but it's close. Close enough that I can get why Jake would be frustrated.

[AjaxAndy]

How do you know he isn’t good enough to be center back he played there 7 times last season and we didn’t lose I never said he was maldini you condescending prick just he is miles better than tark and Keane

Well maybe you need to flip that question on it's head and ask 'if he's good enough why has he only played there 7 times?'.

Usually if a player is good enough they'll have played more than that. The fact he hasn't probably tells us what we need to know.

I'd be more than happy to keep JOB btw, I think he's the perfect Branthwaite backup. I don't think he's the perfect Tarkowski replacement though, and clearly neither does the manager.

If Jake's happy to wait and play if Branthwaite breaks down or needs a rest then fantastic, but if he wants regular game time then it's best for both parties if he finds that elsewhere.

O'Brien has a lot of qualities I like, but he also can't replace the things Tarkowski brings, and just chucking him in anyway would be at best a pretty pointless risk to take, at worst a great way to lose loads of points we wouldn't have otherwise.

Again that's nuance and I know you struggle with that as a concept, so I can't be arsed with the back and forward of this... It's not something you're capable of understanding and that's also fine.