Shogun wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:27 pm
I mean, Dyche isn't a great manager and therefore it probably doesn't really matter when he took us over. That's not to say he's not a good manager but don't expect the football or the results to be all that different even with much better players. Think one of his main strengths is getting the most out of limited players, not sure getting the best out of genuinely talented players is quite his bag.
Will likely be the making of him.
He's never really worked with real quality before.
I can see him later down the line not playing a quality player because he doesn't work as hard as others, ala Mcneil and Harrison.
He wouldn't have gotten along with James I don't reckon.
It will be interesting to see years down the line, providing he is still here, how he tries to progress the squad, whether or not he will keep filling it with grafters.
Shogun wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:27 pm
I mean, Dyche isn't a great manager and therefore it probably doesn't really matter when he took us over. That's not to say he's not a good manager but don't expect the football or the results to be all that different even with much better players. Think one of his main strengths is getting the most out of limited players, not sure getting the best out of genuinely talented players is quite his bag.
Absolutely. Are there any examples of Dyche style managers who have transitioned to playing expressive football effectively anywhere? I can't think of any. It's a totally different skillset, harnessing and inspiring genuine quality players.
Simeone just plays his grafting, aggressive style to the Nth degree, so he wouldn't be one. Maybe that would be the Dyche next level blueprint. Just treble down on his existing style but get more expensive versions of the players to play it even more effectively.
Shogun wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:27 pm
I mean, Dyche isn't a great manager and therefore it probably doesn't really matter when he took us over. That's not to say he's not a good manager but don't expect the football or the results to be all that different even with much better players. Think one of his main strengths is getting the most out of limited players, not sure getting the best out of genuinely talented players is quite his bag.
Absolutely. Are there any examples of Dyche style managers who have transitioned to playing expressive football effectively anywhere? I can't think of any. It's a totally different skillset, harnessing and inspiring genuine quality players.
Simeone just plays his grafting, aggressive style to the Nth degree, so he wouldn't be one. Maybe that would be the Dyche next level blueprint. Just treble down on his existing style but get more expensive versions of the players to play it even more effectively.
I'd take Dyche achieving Simeone's level of success in a heartbeat. Simeone's Atletico side may not be overly glamourous, but they're bloody good.
74Blue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:57 pm
I'd take Dyche achieving Simeone's level of success in a heartbeat. Simeone's Atletico side may not be overly glamourous, but they're bloody good.
I'd probably take 10% of Simeone's success tbh. That would be an incredible achievement.
I wasn't saying I wouldn't take it. I was saying that's a more likely route for Dyche to do better as a manager than trying (and failing) to play more expansively.
Shogun wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:27 pm
I mean, Dyche isn't a great manager and therefore it probably doesn't really matter when he took us over. That's not to say he's not a good manager but don't expect the football or the results to be all that different even with much better players. Think one of his main strengths is getting the most out of limited players, not sure getting the best out of genuinely talented players is quite his bag.
Absolutely. Are there any examples of Dyche style managers who have transitioned to playing expressive football effectively anywhere? I can't think of any. It's a totally different skillset, harnessing and inspiring genuine quality players.
Simeone just plays his grafting, aggressive style to the Nth degree, so he wouldn't be one. Maybe that would be the Dyche next level blueprint. Just treble down on his existing style but get more expensive versions of the players to play it even more effectively.
Given how most people wanked themselves silly over Atletico, I'd take that.
74Blue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:57 pm
I'd take Dyche achieving Simeone's level of success in a heartbeat. Simeone's Atletico side may not be overly glamourous, but they're bloody good.
I'd probably take 10% of Simeone's success tbh. That would be an incredible achievement.
I wasn't saying I wouldn't take it. I was saying that's a more likely route for Dyche to do better as a manager than trying (and failing) to play more expansively.
I think we might be at cross-purposes here over different interpretations of "more expansively", specifically the "more" part. Like, sure, it could mean try to emulate Guardiola or De Zerbi but it can also mean "keep the overall shape and style, but just have slightly more than 20% of the ball, maybe 30 or 40, and move it quicker during longer spells of possession"
And yeah, the first one would be an absolutely silly thing to attempt. The second one, I can't see why, given some stability, confidence and better players, we couldn't achieve that under Dyche.
Shogun wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:27 pm
I mean, Dyche isn't a great manager and therefore it probably doesn't really matter when he took us over. That's not to say he's not a good manager but don't expect the football or the results to be all that different even with much better players. Think one of his main strengths is getting the most out of limited players, not sure getting the best out of genuinely talented players is quite his bag.
Very difficult to say given he's never actually had talented players to work with... Seems to have got Branthwaite looking great though and Onana has improved a lot (apart from against Palace but possibly was still injured). Also has DCL fit and looking like his old self again.
Given our issues off the field I doubt he'll have much in the way of talented players coming in, so we may never find out just what his ceiling is regarding this unfortunately.
Dyche is doing well so far issue is trying to win games at home with 20% possession against top 10 teams need to be better and more proactive in those games
Yup. I was mostly thinking of avoiding the shit-show that was Benitez and Lampard.
But the stuff about James annoys me a bit. He was absolutely kicked off the ball in almost every single game he’s ever played in and people say “Oh he was always injured.”
Eleven men were trying to injure him a couple of times a week, of course some are going to catch him.
And I also think that his easy, languid style on the ball, coupled with his lack of pace makes some people think he’s lazy or not trying. He’s just a different type of athlete. He’s no Ben Godfrey, that’s for sure but I still reckon he worked hard for us most of the time, certainly more than he gets credit for.
Anyway. I’m pretty sure Dyche would kill for a player like James to work with, he’d be the cherry on the cake, the missing piece, the spoonful of sugar to make the Dycheball go down.
Shogun wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 1:18 pm
I just don't think it's any surprise that the season his Burnley side goes down is when they spend big money on Weghorst and Cornet
Cornet was great for them - 9 goals / 1 assist in 26 games.
Weghorst was a bust though, but given his performances at Man UTD I would be inclined to say he's not actually all that good / suited to the premier league.
