Ashley "not so" Young

[brap2]

Honestly I'd play garner.

Keep your head down and run a bleep test up and down all day, stay out the way.

[AjaxAndy]

Tbf I don't think any of us who are saying Patterson isn't the answer think Young is either.

There's not a person in here I'd imagine would want Young anywhere near the team if Patterson was a viable alternative.

It's the old issue of people clambering for a player who we've barely seen because we hate the current incumbent, without there being any evidence they'd be an improvement.

It'll be Coleman in as soon as he's ready so Patterson isn't even really part of the conversation for the RB slot.

[Shogun]

I think we've seen plenty of Patterson tbh, both for us and Scotland. Not saying he's Maldini but I don't remember too many matches where I've gone "Ah, Patterson's been an absolute disaster there"

In terms of the full back position, they've both probably played a similar amount of games there.

It happens. Loads of managers have blindspots even at the very top of the game. It's a mistake from Dyche that hopefully he doesn't repeat in the future in another position.

[Blueomar]

Liability, starting him over Nate is criminal at this point.

[TheRam]

I think we've seen plenty of Patterson tbh, both for us and Scotland. Not saying he's Maldini but I don't remember too many matches where I've gone "Ah, Patterson's been an absolute disaster there"

In terms of the full back position, they've both probably played a similar amount of games there.

It happens. Loads of managers have blindspots even at the very top of the game. It's a mistake from Dyche that hopefully he doesn't repeat in the future in another position.

He’s had the odd game where he’s looked out if his depth but it’s to be expected.

He’s never really had a run in the team. Seems to play three games then gets dropped because he looked a bit ropey at the back.

I have no real opinion on him at the moment. We’ve seen massive improvements in mykolenko so why not see if we can get the same out of Patterson.

Young is a great option to have in the squad.

You can bring him on in a number of positions and his experience and quality on the ball is a great asset to use when you need to make a change.

But flogging him at full back every game is daft and it’s costing us points.

[Cods]

Fine to criticise, but there has to be a viable alternative.

It's not like we're flushed with options or cash, so I'm not sure what the options were. And he can fill a handful of roles.

If Patterson is superior to Young in the same way Branthwaite is to Keane/Godfrey then we'll see the same thing happen.

Totally disagree cods!

He has potentially cost us 6 points already ….

Ok we may not have won the derby or today but both games he makes defeat a dead cert

He is supposed to be a mature, all rounded player, won a lot, played in huge teams etc

And yet, he is a lazy arrogant knob head. He makes half arsed tackles resulting in cards and a penalty today.

It’s abysmal. And it’s unforgivable now. He must be dropped from the team.

You say there is no alternative, but he is literally gifting the opposition points now.

Playing a youngster to learn the role is much better - more forgiving. Patterson has scope to improve but Young will retire next year. It’s again another pay cheque from
Silly old Everton.

I mostly agree mate, he's cost us points and I don't like his attitude either but I still think he edges it over Patterson in certain situations like today, as he provides us better ability to keep the ball, and seems to provide more security to the way we play in posession. I don't think he's lazy. His brain fart for his second yellow a few weeks back looked terrible, but the two yellows could both have gone either way and he'd successfully blocked a big Liverpool chance moments before so probably thought he could do it again. My comment in the match thread today was originally around today's game situation.

He's obviously playing well below his level given he did remarkably well last term with Villa. And I think the freak own goal and other circumstances where's he's taking heat have not been entirely of his making.

Patterson has improved but still seems uncomfortable at the back yet pretty good going forward, when we're direct. It reminds me of how shaky our defense was initially when Mykolenko came in, players around were nervous as they seemed not sure what to expect at times. I completely agree we need to play Patterson more, but in the games where he's best suited. Today we were with the ball a lot more, not backs against the wall needing pacey counter attacks as we might do against better teams that peg us back.

Anyway it's an area that needs improving for sure, but we had to use all our eggs (even eggs we don't have) for a new striker given we're in the financial shit.

[superpull]

Young plays - mistakes happen. He doesn't get better at 38
Patterson plays - mistakes happen. There's a chance he learns from them and improves

Young fucking up has become so regular you simply don't lose anything by playing a kid.

[Kerryblueboy]

Elanga and gibbs white are very quick for forest we need to start Patterson on Saturday not the game to bring Seamus straight back send young to Saudi in January

[TheRam]

Why do we always do this.

Sign older players from bigger clubs who offer nothing but committing fouls and getting booked all the time.

This is just Fabian Delph and Phil Neville all over again.

Managers have such a blind spot for these players.

You’re 38, you’ve had a great career playing for some of the biggest clubs in the world. Why, when you’re on a yellow can you not see Martial is going nowhere and not flick your foot out.

If Patterson makes that mistake we all say it’s fair enough, it’s what happens with young defenders.

When the experienced pro makes that mistake there’s no defence.

Just retire lad.

[bigmanbob]

I wouldn't class Neville in the same boat as Young, but you're bang on with the Delph comparrison. Neville was effective if limited, Young isn't very good and doesn't affect anything other my mood

[4evablu]

I think Patterson has to play now. He's had the odd clanger when he's played but overall he's a better defender than young and definitely better going forward. I watched patterson playing for scotland and he seems to have learnt when defending do the easy thing. When he was playing in earlier games for us he was mainly exposed with no one in front of him he now would have harrison or Mcneil to "manage" his game with him.
THE goal on saturday if you watch Young he doesn't even look at garnacheo and actually pulls away from him and marks no-one giving him the space to set for what he did. The first yellow he over committed himself and then just tried to cut across him. He's nearly always never touch tight to his man and gives them the time and space to turn and take him on, when he goes touch tight he fouls them! This is an experience full back we're talking about here.

[AjaxAndy]

I think Patterson has to play now. He's had the odd clanger when he's played but overall he's a better defender than young and definitely better going forward. I watched patterson playing for scotland and he seems to have learnt when defending do the easy thing. When he was playing in earlier games for us he was mainly exposed with no one in front of him he now would have harrison or Mcneil to "manage" his game with him.
THE goal on saturday if you watch Young he doesn't even look at garnacheo and actually pulls away from him and marks no-one giving him the space to set for what he did. The first yellow he over committed himself and then just tried to cut across him. He's nearly always never touch tight to his man and gives them the time and space to turn and take him on, when he goes touch tight he fouls them! This is an experience full back we're talking about here.

As much as I feel it's perfectly acceptable to bash Young for most things... The goal wasn't anyone's fault, it was just a moment of pure brilliance.

If you watch the goal it's actually a poor cross, it's moving away from goal and there's no way a defender can anticipate what's about to happen. In fact Young's positioning is completely fine for a decent cross in to the danger area.

Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that a goal is what it is - a moment of individual brilliance.

[Kerryblueboy]

The goal wasn’t his fault but for an experienced player he is so rash it’s crazy how much he dives in

[Paddockoldie]

It's a bad thing when the replacement for your 38 year old RB is 35 years old. Only Everton

[4evablu]

I think Patterson has to play now. He's had the odd clanger when he's played but overall he's a better defender than young and definitely better going forward. I watched patterson playing for scotland and he seems to have learnt when defending do the easy thing. When he was playing in earlier games for us he was mainly exposed with no one in front of him he now would have harrison or Mcneil to "manage" his game with him.
THE goal on saturday if you watch Young he doesn't even look at garnacheo and actually pulls away from him and marks no-one giving him the space to set for what he did. The first yellow he over committed himself and then just tried to cut across him. He's nearly always never touch tight to his man and gives them the time and space to turn and take him on, when he goes touch tight he fouls them! This is an experience full back we're talking about here.

As much as I feel it's perfectly acceptable to bash Young for most things... The goal wasn't anyone's fault, it was just a moment of pure brilliance.

If you watch the goal it's actually a poor cross, it's moving away from goal and there's no way a defender can anticipate what's about to happen. In fact Young's positioning is completely fine for a decent cross in to the danger area.

Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that a goal is what it is - a moment of individual brilliance.

I’m not blaming young for the actual goal what I’m saying is he could’ve made it harder for him to perform the bicycle kick by being closer to him. If you watch young he’s marking space not the man. I reckon (easy with hindsight) they practice that-the cross was perfect as garnacho actually moves off his starting position and goes into the space where the ball arrived young never moved ! And who knows he still may of pulled it off even if young had of been tighter worldies rarely happen but when they do there’s nowt ye can do about them.