Obviously VAR only really gets noticed in high profile matches, so the Newcastle v Arsenal one yesterday has set people off on one.
Part of the issue is that referees are instructed (or at least subconsciously feel they should) to not make game-changing decisions because they have VAR as a fallback if they did miss something. Yet VAR will supposedly only interrupt if they feel like it's 'clear and obvious' that a poor decision has been made. So basically a referee will like yesterday will ignore the push from Joelinton or the handball from Joelinton because they think VAR will pick this up despite the fact VAR will look at and say "Well, it's not conclusive" and ignore it.
The issue is the referees and their inability to implement the technology into the game. I would use it for semi-automated offsides (like the world cup) and just leave everything else up to the officials. At least then you can have some empathy for the poor decisions being made rather than sending nonsense apology letters every week.
VAR and is there a way to fix it?
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Audrey Horne
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Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Agree Shogs.
Does this happen weekly in other leagues? I cant remember every game in the Euros or WC having a terrible VAR/Ref decicion...or when i sometimes watch league games in Europe, there never seems to be big big controversy?
Is it the British refs that are the issue? Instead of the system?
Does this happen weekly in other leagues? I cant remember every game in the Euros or WC having a terrible VAR/Ref decicion...or when i sometimes watch league games in Europe, there never seems to be big big controversy?
Is it the British refs that are the issue? Instead of the system?
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
It's pretty poor in this day and age of VAR and goal line technology etc that they don't have an angle or the technology to say whether the ball was out of play or not.
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
No idea if it works better in other countries as we’re not as likely to hear about any controversy but VAR doesn’t seem to be working here. Every week there are incorrect decisions for a variety of reasons - is the game actually any better for VAR than it was without it?
Even though it helped us yesterday I’d prefer it was scrapped altogether.
Even though it helped us yesterday I’d prefer it was scrapped altogether.
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Doesn't help that there's lot of stuff from Neville and Carragher defending VAR today and calling Arsenal OTT.
Howard Webb has played an absolute blinder. Gone on Sky, released audio of some very obvious correct decisions, invited Sky to the PGMOL headquarters and become mates with the two of them.
Howard Webb has played an absolute blinder. Gone on Sky, released audio of some very obvious correct decisions, invited Sky to the PGMOL headquarters and become mates with the two of them.
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Yeah I've been saying for over a year now that refs aren't making decisions because they're hoping VAR will bail them out... Which in turn means VAR look at that incident as the ref deeming it ok, and the they can't over turn it unless it's 'clear and obvious' that the ref made an error.
The ref hasn't made an error, they've not made any decision at all... Completely falls apart as a system because refs aren't brave enough now to make those calls, whereas with no VAR they would have to.
It's hyper infuriating.
They also need to remove the lines from offsides... If you need to draw a line then it's not offside. The Dunk one against us was a perfect example of a player onside and only deemed off because some hand drawn line claimed he was half a millimetre off.
Using the Dunk example further... The sport is supposed to be entertainment, so what's more entertaining?
A) A spectacular goal that's replayed multiple times on channels all over the world.
Or
B) 5 minutes of zooming in and out and finally drawing a line that suggests his toenail was offside, destroying any momentum the game had and removing a huge talking point of the spectacular goal all because it was 'offside'.
I appreciate the goal decision went for us in this instance, but the reality is the game would be far better off for that goal and others like it to be given.
The ref hasn't made an error, they've not made any decision at all... Completely falls apart as a system because refs aren't brave enough now to make those calls, whereas with no VAR they would have to.
It's hyper infuriating.
They also need to remove the lines from offsides... If you need to draw a line then it's not offside. The Dunk one against us was a perfect example of a player onside and only deemed off because some hand drawn line claimed he was half a millimetre off.
Using the Dunk example further... The sport is supposed to be entertainment, so what's more entertaining?
A) A spectacular goal that's replayed multiple times on channels all over the world.
Or
B) 5 minutes of zooming in and out and finally drawing a line that suggests his toenail was offside, destroying any momentum the game had and removing a huge talking point of the spectacular goal all because it was 'offside'.
I appreciate the goal decision went for us in this instance, but the reality is the game would be far better off for that goal and others like it to be given.
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
the rules are the rules, bro.AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 7:18 pm Yeah I've been saying for over a year now that refs aren't making decisions because they're hoping VAR will bail them out... Which in turn means VAR look at that incident as the ref deeming it ok, and the they can't over turn it unless it's 'clear and obvious' that the ref made an error.
The ref hasn't made an error, they've not made any decision at all... Completely falls apart as a system because refs aren't brave enough now to make those calls, whereas with no VAR they would have to.
It's hyper infuriating.
They also need to remove the lines from offsides... If you need to draw a line then it's not offside. The Dunk one against us was a perfect example of a player onside and only deemed off because some hand drawn line claimed he was half a millimetre off.
Using the Dunk example further... The sport is supposed to be entertainment, so what's more entertaining?
A) A spectacular goal that's replayed multiple times on channels all over the world.
Or
B) 5 minutes of zooming in and out and finally drawing a line that suggests his toenail was offside, destroying any momentum the game had and removing a huge talking point of the spectacular goal all because it was 'offside'.
I appreciate the goal decision went for us in this instance, but the reality is the game would be far better off for that goal and others like it to be given.
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
It needs a dedicated team who do just VAR. Not referees who do it on their week off. And top quality Tech guys who can sort the feeds and graphics faster.
The onfield refs need to be asking for options, not waiting to be told they got it wrong. I want them asking 'Hang on, I want to review that from another angle.', or the linesman can flag something to the ref to go check and the feeds be ready when they get to the pitch-side screen.
The onfield refs need to be asking for options, not waiting to be told they got it wrong. I want them asking 'Hang on, I want to review that from another angle.', or the linesman can flag something to the ref to go check and the feeds be ready when they get to the pitch-side screen.
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Major League Baseball has a central location for all reviews in NYC and a staff dedicated to that task. Might be a better model.Goaljira wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:07 pm It needs a dedicated team who do just VAR. Not referees who do it on their week off. And top quality Tech guys who can sort the feeds and graphics faster.
The onfield refs need to be asking for options, not waiting to be told they got it wrong. I want them asking 'Hang on, I want to review that from another angle.', or the linesman can flag something to the ref to go check and the feeds be ready when they get to the pitch-side screen.
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
I think the referees & co are just too pompus to admit their mistakes and it's only after the even they will come out and apologise because it's been highlighted by the media fuss....
I think there's a number of causal issues which dont help referees:
1. there's no respect in football for officials
2. players diving and play acting
3. Non playing/ex playing officials who may know the rules black & white but don't know how to play the game
4. trying to make the game too perfect through rules, rules and more rules.
A dedicated team would help but then you's need a dedicated team per game being played as surely you could.t have 1 team potentially looking after 5-6 matches at once! Could you ?
My solution would be learn from the rugby TMO system..the way they do it eliminates numbers 1-3 instantly. And keeps all parties informed including the fans at all times.
The problem with this solution is the big 4/6 at the time voted on the VAR being introduced but wouldn't agree to big screens displaying it live the ground. I want my cake and eat it but only when i want it.
I think there's a number of causal issues which dont help referees:
1. there's no respect in football for officials
2. players diving and play acting
3. Non playing/ex playing officials who may know the rules black & white but don't know how to play the game
4. trying to make the game too perfect through rules, rules and more rules.
A dedicated team would help but then you's need a dedicated team per game being played as surely you could.t have 1 team potentially looking after 5-6 matches at once! Could you ?
My solution would be learn from the rugby TMO system..the way they do it eliminates numbers 1-3 instantly. And keeps all parties informed including the fans at all times.
The problem with this solution is the big 4/6 at the time voted on the VAR being introduced but wouldn't agree to big screens displaying it live the ground. I want my cake and eat it but only when i want it.
WBFBTPL
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blueToffee
- Posts: 475
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Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
I mentioned this in the today's football thread, so sorry if this is just repeating, but I would try and take as many game defining decisions away from the referees as possible. To strain a metaphor, they've created the two people trying to be polite going through the door at the same time situation, where they sort of keep on deferring to each other and one week one takes the lead then the next the other. I think maybe the worst example of this this week was actually the late penalty in the Sheffield Utd vs Wolves game. The referee gave it, but I think most looking at that from a couple of angles would say the player was already on the way down and there was very minimal contact, but that call really is beyond VAR because it's a little bit subjective. Even if they thought with 95% certainty it wasn't a penalty they can't really do anything about it, or feel they have to defer to the referee on the pitch.
Personally I would:
- implement the automatic offside decision.
- change more fouls in the box to be free kicks not penalties. As part of the issue is the oversized reward for these sort of decisions and possibly errors. If it's deemed a handball because it bounces up funny and hits an arm of a defender in the far corner of the box, give a free kick. The reward for these incidents is far too large for the offence it feels like all too often. If it's a clear goalscoring chance then sure, give a penalty as that is then a fair reward.
Personally I would:
- implement the automatic offside decision.
- change more fouls in the box to be free kicks not penalties. As part of the issue is the oversized reward for these sort of decisions and possibly errors. If it's deemed a handball because it bounces up funny and hits an arm of a defender in the far corner of the box, give a free kick. The reward for these incidents is far too large for the offence it feels like all too often. If it's a clear goalscoring chance then sure, give a penalty as that is then a fair reward.
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
You can't be changing premier league rules about penalties when the rest of the world plays how its always been played. You'd end up.with teams playing with two different sets of rules in the same week with the European and Cup competitions.
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Bob Sacamano
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Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
I think it’s strange how almost no stadia have a VAR setup where the cameras are placed at the right angles to catch a ball going out of play or an offside. Every time I see these dopes draw their lines they’re all at jaunty angles.
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Bob Sacamano
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Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Oh and also. I was talking about the refereeing decisions with a Liverpool fan. Apparently nobody has been able to speak out or complain about VAR for the past couple of years, that was until Klopp bravely donned his cape and had the courage to call them out for the Spurs decision.
Now because of this selfless act other clubs don’t have to be afraid and people like arteta can speak out without being afraid because Liverpool brought the VAR conversation to the table so other clubs could also look for justice.
Had one about how good Bellingham the other day and it turned out to be a story of morality and greed and how it showed their principals by not being held ransom even though he had practically signed for them then decided to play the Madrid wage offer against them for more cash.
Why does every single conversation with these idiots circle back around to Liverpool?
Now because of this selfless act other clubs don’t have to be afraid and people like arteta can speak out without being afraid because Liverpool brought the VAR conversation to the table so other clubs could also look for justice.
Had one about how good Bellingham the other day and it turned out to be a story of morality and greed and how it showed their principals by not being held ransom even though he had practically signed for them then decided to play the Madrid wage offer against them for more cash.
Why does every single conversation with these idiots circle back around to Liverpool?
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Scrap it, it will never happen, but it;s the best outcome.
Football has become more of a chore to watch, last night in the Suprs v Chelsea game it was downright ridiculous how long the breaks in play were.
I hate VAR and I can't see that changing anytime soon. When it first came in, we were told we would need to give it time to bed in, it's had time and now it's worse then ever and most importantly, it's worse then before we had VAR, much worse.
Football has become more of a chore to watch, last night in the Suprs v Chelsea game it was downright ridiculous how long the breaks in play were.
I hate VAR and I can't see that changing anytime soon. When it first came in, we were told we would need to give it time to bed in, it's had time and now it's worse then ever and most importantly, it's worse then before we had VAR, much worse.