James Garner

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UnsyisaRhino
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Gary1878 wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 1:01 pm In any side, you need a James Garner. Solid, reliable, good with the ball and can be there when you need him.

We haven’t had anyone like him since Barry and Osman. They go quietly about their business but do a great job.

We don’t need him to be world class to be very effective for us
This is it for me, we actually have someone in midfield who can do everything fairly well.

He's probably no better than a 7/10 at anything he does outside of attitude and application, but we've had what feels like 5 years of flawed players.

He's easily our most rounded midfielder. Looking at his stats, he's one of our better tacklers, passers and crossers, if he can add a few more goals and we can convert a few more of his passes, then we're on to a winner.

Unfortunately I think some aspects of what he does well, and what we've missed, isn't really very flashy and doesn't make headlines.
Cods
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UnsyisaRhino wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 7:54 pm This is it for me, we actually have someone in midfield who can do everything fairly well.

He's probably no better than a 7/10 at anything he does outside of attitude and application, but we've had what feels like 5 years of flawed players.

He's easily our most rounded midfielder. Looking at his stats, he's one of our better tacklers, passers and crossers, if he can add a few more goals and we can convert a few more of his passes, then we're on to a winner.

Unfortunately I think some aspects of what he does well, and what we've missed, isn't really very flashy and doesn't make headlines.
Definitely.

Very smart and measured footballer, level headed and little ego, a committed professional who wants the ball and actually moves to make it easier to receive it, obviously follows instruction, very good decision making, a team player, understands keeping possession is important when we actually have it, hardly ever wasteful always wanting to make things happen (one of the few since Baines) which is particularly important for us.

Doesn't hide, plays the percentages (therefore read as boring) is not an outside chance of becoming a very good footballer. It's not hard to see that in a functioning side, for England (yes, yes,... Youth international football is levels below) he plays an important role, yet where his international teammate Branthwaite receives the plaudits (who in my opinion has some higher x/10s than Garner mostly related to the physical aspects, also has few but larger flaws)

He seems to attract criticism. I just havent seen where he gets crazy adulation from.

No one says he's a world beater but he's certainly part of what we need. Socially he's an outsider in the team, but ironically works for the team like no other.
sam of the south
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Bluedylan1 wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:49 pm Meat and potatoes player for me. And that's ok, for now.
Yeah I agree.

I love meat and potatoes in all forms tbh.

I think mash will always be king for me, and roast is queen, occasionally usurped by chips.
Bluedylan1
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sam of the south wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:34 am Yeah I agree.

I love meat and potatoes in all forms tbh.

I think mash will always be king for me, and roast is queen, occasionally usurped by chips.
Same. I don't bring the same negative connotations to meat and potatoes that maybe Andy does. It's absolutely a staple, and you need it through these tough winter months, just like you maybe need a James Garner through Everton's metaphorical winter.
sam of the south
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Bluedylan1 wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:39 am Same. I don't bring the same negative connotations to meat and potatoes that maybe Andy does. It's absolutely a staple, and you need it through these tough winter months, just like you maybe need a James Garner through Everton's metaphorical winter.
Yeah, I dig a water carrier, a dude who’s gonna chop the firewood and remember to season the scran
brap2
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It's not a bad thing to have a lad who will graft and be fairly sensible on the ball.

But Gana is a better tackler, Onana is better on the ball in all thirds, doucoure is better in the box. He's not better than anyone at anything. Maybe positionally? Seems to make a lot of interceptions.

That's fine as far as I'm concerned, I just prefer different types of midfielders. In the same way you don't feel he gets crazy adulation (did see someone on twitter say he's the greatest creative player since James Rodriguez), I don't see him get crazy criticism. I definitely will be criticising him though because I don't particularly like him as a player so I'm afraid unless he changes what he's capable of (possible! Gordon has 🫠) you will be reading some moans re: boring possession player who gets man of that match every week because he runs about and he's from man united.
superpull
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brap2 wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:04 am It's not a bad thing to have a lad who will graft and be fairly sensible on the ball.

But Gana is a better tackler, Onana is better on the ball in all thirds, doucoure is better in the box. He's not better than anyone at anything. Maybe positionally? Seems to make a lot of interceptions.

That's fine as far as I'm concerned, I just prefer different types of midfielders. In the same way you don't feel he gets crazy adulation (did see someone on twitter say he's the greatest creative player since James Rodriguez), I don't see him get crazy criticism. I definitely will be criticising him though because I don't particularly like him as a player so I'm afraid unless he changes what he's capable of (possible! Gordon has 🫠) you will be reading some moans re: boring possession player who gets man of that match every week because he runs about and he's from man united.
Better on the ball than Gana, better off the ball than Onana and better tackler than Doucoure?

Problem with the three you picked, is they are hardly the rounded articles themselves.
wepull
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Uninspiring player but good enough for the current side, so can't complain. Would like to see more of his set plays which he was known for before we got him, not seen any quality on it so far.
brap2
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superpull wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:38 am Better on the ball than Gana, better off the ball than Onana and better tackler than Doucoure?

Problem with the three you picked, is they are hardly the rounded articles themselves.
He sounds amazing!

In reality I don't think he is better than Gana on the ball. Gana is more progressive and more accurate, even at long balls. Doesn't feel like he should be does it, but he is.

Garner has more key passes per 90 and shot creating actions which is brilliant, but he does take set pieces. If you take away set pieces, Gana gueye, a player many on here would have you believe can't kick a ball out performs him.

Carrying the ball? Gana.
Taking players on? Garner does more per 90 (0.70v0.63) but is tackled more on the process (52% v 75% success).
Carrying the ball into the opponent final third? Guess who.
Garner carries the ball into the box more (0.05 times more p90)
Getting on the ball in general? Gana
Getting on the ball in the middle of the pitch? Gana

He gets into the penalty box more (1.09 Vs 1.05). 0.04 times per 90 minutes than Gana Gueye. This guy is a dangerman watch out!

This is a very boring post that I'm only having to do because you are annoyed I don't rate him. And someone else is annoyed that i rated (and still rate) Alex iwobi. And it won't convince anyone and someone else will just say yeah but Gana gives the ball away (he does).

In reality I don't think there's much between them on the ball and they do a similar job off it (Gana better for me). How is one perceived by the fanbase Vs the other and why is that?
AjaxAndy
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brap2 wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:07 am He sounds amazing!

In reality I don't think he is better than Gana on the ball. Gana is more progressive and more accurate, even at long balls. Doesn't feel like he should be does it, but he is.

Garner has more key passes per 90 and shot creating actions which is brilliant, but he does take set pieces. If you take away set pieces, Gana gueye, a player many on here would have you believe can't kick a ball out performs him.

Carrying the ball? Gana.
Taking players on? Garner does more per 90 (0.70v0.63) but is tackled more on the process (52% v 75% success).
Carrying the ball into the opponent final third? Guess who.
Garner carries the ball into the box more (0.05 times more p90)
Getting on the ball in general? Gana
Getting on the ball in the middle of the pitch? Gana

He gets into the penalty box more (1.09 Vs 1.05). 0.04 times per 90 minutes than Gana Gueye. This guy is a dangerman watch out!

This is a very boring post that I'm only having to do because you are annoyed I don't rate him. And someone else is annoyed that i rated (and still rate) Alex iwobi. And it won't convince anyone and someone else will just say yeah but Gana gives the ball away (he does).

In reality I don't think there's much between them on the ball and they do a similar job off it (Gana better for me). How is one perceived by the fanbase Vs the other and why is that?
Good comparison / data set. I personally really like Gana, I think unless he's shooting or asked to play as the holding midfielder he's very good.

Gana carries the ball forward better than any of our midfielders and obviously his interception level is top notch.

Gets a bad rep at times because he's not a natural six and is asked to play there, and also is terrible at shooting. Everything in-between and he's a very capable player.
superpull
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Ah @brap2 man, I'm not even close to annoyed and thought I was cracking a joke.

I'd have all 3 of them ahead of Garner and was just playing with words. (I would point out that you did just lost a load of stats where Garner is technically better though?)

I don't *dislike* him though and think he's a very important squad player.
Toddacelli
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Doesn’t look out of place. Would prefer him on the bench.
Bob Sacamano
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I thought he’d be way better than what we’ve seen. But at least he doesn’t embarrass himself week in week out like some of the usual suspect over the past couple of years. Meh. Whatever.
Cozzie
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Plays better when Onana is next to him.
Paddockoldie
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He's like Alan Harper in terms of his versatility and that's not a criticism. Great asset Harper at the time.
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