Who is the greatest England player of all time?

[cassius]

My wife asked me this question yesterday and I had to have a think about it.

She doesn't know who Leighton Baines is, so I said I thought it was Gazza. He beats Rooney and Rio Ferdinand as the best players I can remember playing.

If we're all in agreement that the Prince of Kirkby is number one, who comes second for you, as the greatest England player of all time?

[AllyBlue14]

John Terry was a bit of a player by all accounts*

*the skank

[TheRam]

Rooney for me by a distance.

Longevity, talent, goals, records, titles.

He did it all. You’ll never see that raw talent with the physical attributes at such a young age again.

Then I’d say Bobby Charlton, Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole.

Gascoigne and hoddle there for pure talent but not really doing much on the world stage.

[AjaxAndy]

Depends if you mean English or England... Don't care about Rooney's goals for England as he was absolutely shit and uncommited to the England team after the first tournament he played.

Maybe the best English player of all time but his England career was a huge disappointment.

It's hard to say which England player is the best of all time as I've only seen a certain period, but Gazza clearly the most naturally talented but short longevity... Beckham probably the most influencial and for a long period too.

Hopefully Bellingham becomes our all time great, he's certainly on the right track to surpass everyone.

[Audrey Horne]

Foden

[777Kidnappings]

Surely has to be a world Cup winner. We ain't won anything else. Not having Rooney he scored 1 goal at a world Cup. His record is slanted by the ever increasing number of easy qualifiers. He achieved very little with England. Think kane has a bigger claim than Rooney.

[Toffee1]

Sir Bobby Charlton.

[cassius]

Depends if you mean English or England... Don't care about Rooney's goals for England as he was absolutely shit and uncommited to the England team after the first tournament he played.

Maybe the best English player of all time but his England career was a huge disappointment.

It's hard to say which England player is the best of all time as I've only seen a certain period, but Gazza clearly the most naturally talented but short longevity... Beckham probably the most influencial and for a long period too.

Hopefully Bellingham becomes our all time great, he's certainly on the right track to surpass everyone.

What do you mean by uncommitted and shit?

53 goals
120 games

It's hardly Ryan Giggs levels of commitment.

[AjaxAndy]

What do you mean by uncommitted and shit?

53 goals
120 games

It's hardly Ryan Giggs levels of commitment.

Rocking up to major tournaments unfit and sitting drinking and smoking in a pool in the run up to them... He's scored a fuck load of goals for England but had one single decent tournament which was his first when he was 17.

You look at how far Portugal got in tournaments based on Ronaldo's desire to be the best for his country and the key to getting far in tournaments, then you look at an unfit Rooney trudging around not scoring, just never had the desire and commitment required to make a difference when it mattered.

You just have to look at Rooney and Ronaldo's respective paths from 30 onwards to see what dedication and commitment looks like, and sadly what it doesn't.

[TheRam]

Didn’t he hide a major groin injury to play in 2006?

[cassius]

Rocking up to major tournaments unfit and sitting drinking and smoking in a pool in the run up to them... He's scored a fuck load of goals for England but had one single decent tournament which was his first when he was 17.

You look at how far Portugal got in tournaments based on Ronaldo's desire to be the best for his country and the key to getting far in tournaments, then you look at an unfit Rooney trudging around not scoring, just never had the desire and commitment required to make a difference when it mattered.

You just have to look at Rooney and Ronaldo's respective paths from 30 onwards to see what dedication and commitment looks like, and sadly what it doesn't.

I wasn't aware of the drinking and smoking incidents, but I think that's a little unfair in general. He seemed to be a guy who would play through pain for England.

I've just looked it up and 36 of his goals were in competitive internationals, second only behind Kane. And he only scored 7 pens for England, whereas Kane has 21. He turned up.

The Ronaldo vs Rooney debate about longevity is a difficult one for me. Yes Rooney didn't dedicate his life to footy in the same way that Ronaldo has done, but you can say that for about 95% of professional footballers, not just Rooney. His game was based on his physicality and short bursts of speed, which he couldn't maintain after years playing in the most physical league in the world.

I wonder how he would have faired if he'd gone to Spain and Italy? Probably divorced tbf

[AjaxAndy]

I wasn't aware of the drinking and smoking incidents, but I think that's a little unfair in general. He seemed to be a guy who would play through pain for England.

I've just looked it up and 36 of his goals were in competitive internationals, second only behind Kane. And he only scored 7 pens for England, whereas Kane has 21. He turned up.

The Ronaldo vs Rooney debate about longevity is a difficult one for me. Yes Rooney didn't dedicate his life to footy in the same way that Ronaldo has done, but you can say that for about 95% of professional footballers, not just Rooney. His game was based on his physicality and short bursts of speed, which he couldn't maintain after years playing in the most physical league in the world.

I wonder how he would have faired if he'd gone to Spain and Italy? Probably divorced tbf

Yeah he turned up to more than one major tournament unfit because he couldn't be arsed to keep in top physical shape once the season finished. He's always had drink problems, you can see from his behaviour even as a manager that the guy has very little discipline.

He also scored zero goals in major tournaments between his first and last I believe... Yes he scored plenty in qualifying (because he was match fit), but he was never the talisman he should have been in major tournaments, whereas others were for their countries.

Rooney will always be a freak talent that deserves to be recognised as a phenomenal footballer, but his England career will always be a huge frustration and disappointment to me because it could and should have been better, and the only reason it wasn't was because of himself.

I think scousers will probably reflect better on him because he's one of their own, and I'm not a Scouser so don't have that connection, and what he achieved in the game is quite rightly viewed as exceptional. However for me he didn't do what he showed the world he should have done after that first Euros and what others ended up doing because they were more committed to the game.

[blueforyou]

Jimmy Greaves
Bobby Charlton
Duncan Edwards

Modern day era: Wayne Rooney

[Goaljira]

Jordan Pickford.

[Cods]

Jarrod Branthwaite.

Just getting in early.