VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Ah didn't even notice it was vaguely going to be around the Autumn time. I've given up when it comes to technology and refereeing at this point. You'd think the 'biggest' league in the world would be ahead of the game as far as did sort of thing goes.
Mind you, they don't even have goal-line technology in Spain
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Might not even be relevant to us.Shogun wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:07 pm Ah didn't even notice it was vaguely going to be around the Autumn time. I've given up when it comes to technology and refereeing at this point. You'd think the 'biggest' league in the world would be ahead of the game as far as did sort of thing goes.
Mind you, they don't even have goal-line technology in Spain
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... an-revolt/
Sweden has become the first country to refuse to use Video Assistant Referees following a fan revolt against its introduction.
The president of the Swedish Football Association, Fredrik Reinfeldt, confirmed VAR would not be implemented in its competitions, having previously proclaimed the system “our future”.
The climbdown reflects Swedish clubs being at least 51 per cent fan-owned and fierce resistance among supporters to VAR’s introduction.
Reinfeldt, the former prime minister of Sweden, told Aftonbladet more than half of the top 32 teams opposed VAR.
He said: “If I counted correctly, we have 18 elite clubs and two districts that have said they do not want to introduce VAR. We respect that.
“That’s why we didn’t bring forward any proposal about VAR to the previous board of representatives meeting and I don’t foresee it in the future either. I stand by respecting the democratic rules of the game.”
Reinfeldt had warned a year ago Swedish clubs could be forced to use VAR in their home matches in Uefa competitions. But he said that threat had receded.
“I don’t think so now, from what I’ve heard,” he added. “So then it is up to us to make the decision. Then it is clear how it looks right now – the clubs do not want the introduction of this specific technology.”
The Swedish Professional Football Leagues group said last summer it would campaign against VAR being trialled this autumn.
Its general secretary, Johan Lindvall, said at the time: “Sweden is currently the only country among Europe’s 30 highest-ranked leagues that has not decided to introduce VAR.
“The fact that we have not done so is largely due to our democratic model. We are proud of our club democracy and we must protect it.”
The introduction of VAR in Norway last year prompted protests from more than 70 fans’ groups.
Sweden has become the first country to refuse to use Video Assistant Referees following a fan revolt against its introduction.
The president of the Swedish Football Association, Fredrik Reinfeldt, confirmed VAR would not be implemented in its competitions, having previously proclaimed the system “our future”.
The climbdown reflects Swedish clubs being at least 51 per cent fan-owned and fierce resistance among supporters to VAR’s introduction.
Reinfeldt, the former prime minister of Sweden, told Aftonbladet more than half of the top 32 teams opposed VAR.
He said: “If I counted correctly, we have 18 elite clubs and two districts that have said they do not want to introduce VAR. We respect that.
“That’s why we didn’t bring forward any proposal about VAR to the previous board of representatives meeting and I don’t foresee it in the future either. I stand by respecting the democratic rules of the game.”
Reinfeldt had warned a year ago Swedish clubs could be forced to use VAR in their home matches in Uefa competitions. But he said that threat had receded.
“I don’t think so now, from what I’ve heard,” he added. “So then it is up to us to make the decision. Then it is clear how it looks right now – the clubs do not want the introduction of this specific technology.”
The Swedish Professional Football Leagues group said last summer it would campaign against VAR being trialled this autumn.
Its general secretary, Johan Lindvall, said at the time: “Sweden is currently the only country among Europe’s 30 highest-ranked leagues that has not decided to introduce VAR.
“The fact that we have not done so is largely due to our democratic model. We are proud of our club democracy and we must protect it.”
The introduction of VAR in Norway last year prompted protests from more than 70 fans’ groups.
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
I have so many issues with this. One being the amount of people talking for a lot of it, two is the absurdity of the way offside lines are literally just drew on which is absolutely baffling to me that they're treated as 100% accurate and finally that Michael Oliver is calling Son "Sonny". You're a ref mate, why are you calling him by a nickname?
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
I was quite impressed by the rest of the logic and process, but that arbitrary placement of the lines is absolutely mental.Shogun wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:50 pm I have so many issues with this. One being the amount of people talking for a lot of it, two is the absurdity of the way offside lines are literally just drew on which is absolutely baffling to me that they're treated as 100% accurate and finally that Michael Oliver is calling Son "Sonny". You're a ref mate, why are you calling him by a nickname?
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Audrey Horne
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Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
How long did that take?
Did it just seem like 5 hours watching it away from the game or was it a long time?
And that's honestly pathetic regarding the offside lines
For one it's basically a decision by the var guy where to pop them down and secondly, when they zoom in the players fucking pixilate so how the fuck do they know where the actual player ends??
Baffles me that when it's that close the attacker doesn't just get benefit of the doubt
Did it just seem like 5 hours watching it away from the game or was it a long time?
And that's honestly pathetic regarding the offside lines
For one it's basically a decision by the var guy where to pop them down and secondly, when they zoom in the players fucking pixilate so how the fuck do they know where the actual player ends??
Baffles me that when it's that close the attacker doesn't just get benefit of the doubt
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
I don't like VAR, but the logic and speed of the process in that example was as good and fast as it could possibly have been. The people doing it have a very hard task, it's quite easy to see how mistakes can occur, but what can be done except bin it all off?
They've talked about a sensor in the ball to detect movement from a pass to tighten up the instant the pass is played to determine where the line should go, but it's never going to be something they can accurately calculate anyway.
They've gone for the perception of perfection, something that can't be achieved, even with the new tech they had at the world cup.
They've talked about a sensor in the ball to detect movement from a pass to tighten up the instant the pass is played to determine where the line should go, but it's never going to be something they can accurately calculate anyway.
They've gone for the perception of perfection, something that can't be achieved, even with the new tech they had at the world cup.
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Audrey Horne
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Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Naaaaa it's too long and it's an awful shameful way to do offside lines
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Ok, so you're saying you're not agreeing, but actually seem to be agreeing, by the points you made?Audrey Horne wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2024 3:40 pm Naaaaa it's too long and it's an awful shameful way to do offside lines
If there is an improvement, besides binning it off altogether, what do you think might improve the process?
There are obviously many considerations that come into their example, in a complex decision like that one I don't see how it could be speeded up.
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Cereal Killer
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Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
“The Premier League is to introduce semi-automated offside technology from next season, in the hope of reducing the time it takes to make VAR decisions.Cods wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:14 am Ok, so you're saying you're not agreeing, but actually seem to be agreeing, by the points you made?
If there is an improvement, besides binning it off altogether, what do you think might improve the process?
There are obviously many considerations that come into their example, in a complex decision like that one I don't see how it could be speeded up.
The system will use camera footage and tracking software to calculate the position of players at the moment of a potential offside, replacing the need for VAR teams to do so. In trials, this process has been shown to reduce the average length of a VAR decision by 31 seconds
Semi-automated offside technology was used during the 2022 World Cup in Qatar. It eliminates the need for VARs to manually add lines to camera images and will produce graphics that can be shown to fans in stadiums”
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Maybe we’re looking at this wrong
How about fucking the actual ref off and having VR’s instead. They could blow their whistle via the stadium’s sound system, and play the audio of the ref’s in the VR studio arguing about every decision while putting the replays on screen in the ground / on Sky. Games could go on for several hours giving supporters more value for money. Players wouldn’t be as tired as they’d have plenty of rest time between decisions Plus they wouldn’t be able to crowd round the ref arguing every decision. Security guards could be used to drag any player off the pitch who’d been sent off but refused to leave the field of play..
I reckon it could catch on
How about fucking the actual ref off and having VR’s instead. They could blow their whistle via the stadium’s sound system, and play the audio of the ref’s in the VR studio arguing about every decision while putting the replays on screen in the ground / on Sky. Games could go on for several hours giving supporters more value for money. Players wouldn’t be as tired as they’d have plenty of rest time between decisions Plus they wouldn’t be able to crowd round the ref arguing every decision. Security guards could be used to drag any player off the pitch who’d been sent off but refused to leave the field of play..
I reckon it could catch on
Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Yeah, it seemed like a response to my post, which was essentially saying the same thing I'd said in this thread so far. If it wasnt in reference to my post, all good.Cereal Killer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:26 am “The Premier League is to introduce semi-automated offside technology from next season, in the hope of reducing the time it takes to make VAR decisions.
The system will use camera footage and tracking software to calculate the position of players at the moment of a potential offside, replacing the need for VAR teams to do so. In trials, this process has been shown to reduce the average length of a VAR decision by 31 seconds
Semi-automated offside technology was used during the 2022 World Cup in Qatar. It eliminates the need for VARs to manually add lines to camera images and will produce graphics that can be shown to fans in stadiums”
Given the constraints the league currently have to work with, this example actually showed what was involved and the high level of speed and proficiency required (compared to what the public perception is of the operators, based upon previous only-bad examples). It is still a poor system that the operators by and large do very well navigating. But it is still a poor system. It has considerable time-related issues and still delivers only marginally more accurate outcomes than no VAR, but with considerable down sides.
Bringing in the system as used in the world cup, as Ive mentioned a few times, the world cup version will be better, probably slightly quicker, but not significantly; 30 seconds is little improvement on the experience, and the point is it will never be perfect, and cannot be. It's promising something to satisfy a perfection-seeking public that can't be delivered.
It's unfortunate that this is the way they decided to go, rather than the Swedish example (for not only fans, but players and managers). That instead of saying "ok, ref's will get some wrong, and some right, as they have always done, and fans will need to accommodate that" (which, if polled, I reckon would be the majority of fans preference), let's instead keep attempting perfection, which just increases the target on PGMOLs back, and intensifies the focus on smaller and smaller incidents that in the scheme of things, hardly decide matches yet attracts the most attention. The Swedish example is the adult response, and would wind back the toxicity and unattractiveness of some elements of fan culture and manager behaviour.
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Audrey Horne
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Re: VAR and is there a way to fix it?
Use the programme they had at the WC. If it's within a certain closeness, then the attacker gets the benefit of the doubt.
Not that hard?
Also, stop refs acting like god, making stupid decisions and not having to face the consequences of that.
They should speak to the media afterwards, same as players/managers do. Explain any big decisions they made.
I think if they were more open, then fans would either see how difficult the job is and be a bit more lenient on wrong decisions etc .... or/and they would respect refs more because they are actually fronting up why they made certain decisions.
We know they are 'only human' and mistakes will be made. But its the silence after it. They ref a game, they ruin the match with a bad decision, they go home - silence - following week it happens again.
We need more clarity and more communication i recon. For respect and understanding to build up.
Not that hard?
Also, stop refs acting like god, making stupid decisions and not having to face the consequences of that.
They should speak to the media afterwards, same as players/managers do. Explain any big decisions they made.
I think if they were more open, then fans would either see how difficult the job is and be a bit more lenient on wrong decisions etc .... or/and they would respect refs more because they are actually fronting up why they made certain decisions.
We know they are 'only human' and mistakes will be made. But its the silence after it. They ref a game, they ruin the match with a bad decision, they go home - silence - following week it happens again.
We need more clarity and more communication i recon. For respect and understanding to build up.